Orange Peel

Tom Militano

Tom Militano

BANNED
Joined
Feb 27, 1999
Messages
1,160
I ran across a strange problem with a 440C blade yesterday. It has an orange peel effect on one side of the blade only. The other side is fine. ????
 
Tom you missed placed Yankee. It looks like you will have to make one sided blade knife out of it. :confused: :confused: :eek: :p
 
Admiral Steel has, in the past, shipped a lot of 440C, and ATS 34 that did that.
It didn't make any difference how you finished it, the result was cloudy.

I don't think they have that problem steel anymore, but you could have a piece of it, or, like Mark said it could be from using worn belts, or simply buffing too much on that side.

Try regrinding the cloudy side with a fresh high grit belt, and buffing again. That might help.

If not, satin is a good finish.:eek: ;)
 
BTW, The term' orange peel' has long been used to describe a texture found on deep drawn brass that has excessively large grain size.....In your case I would suspect it is caused by worn belts especially since it's one one side only. Early in my career, while preparing samples for microscope examination I was educated.I was using hardened tungsten tool steel about as hard and wear resistant a steel as you could find.The lab supervisor was always complaining that abrasive paper discs were being thrown out while there was still life in them.I tried but those worn discs would actually smear the steel !!! You could see the results under the microscope. Yes belts cost money but there is a time to replace them.
 
It was ground to 220 grit prior to heat treating, using new belts. After heat treating I took it to 400 grit, again using new belts. I read some place to use belts like their free and I agree with that. Paul Bos heat treated it, so I know it was done right. I've just never had one get that effect on one side. It's a piece of 440C that's been in the shop a couple of years. I tried to satin finish it to 600 grit and it was still there. I'm going to have to beat blast it. I guess I could spread some of George's relish on it etch it.
 
Surface overheating during buffing will certainly bring out that look in SS's, but I've never had it happen during grinding so I'm of no help. Sorry. Is there any possibility one side got heated up a lot more during inital pre-HT grinding?

I do agree about using a new belt at every grit during finishing. Cheap compared to the lost time that far down the line.
 
When I am finishing blades I belt the surface with 400 cork belts coated with green compound. The green compound first reduces the effective grit of the belt to VERY fine and secondly acts as a lubricant while removing scratches prior to buffing thus reducing heat buildup.

Dry grinding or buffing with too dry a compound will cause an orange peel effect in softer metal but I have never encountered it on hard metals like heat treated 440C.

Over buffing will leave an orange peel finish on hardened stainless however, the only fix is to go back to the 400 cork belt and start over.
 
I am having a similar problem with a piece of O1, it began to show when I started to buff. It is showing on both side in generally the same spots. I don't believe that I overheated during buffing though.

The other problem is I am using a scotch bright wheel to finish satin, an I was belt sharpening and dipping in water to cool, within 5 min (while sharpening) those orange peeled areas began to rust. I have never satin a blade, I always polish. Is O1 good to satin, or prone to rusting that quick? Have I done something else wrong????
 
Tom Militano said:
It was ground to 220 grit prior to heat treating, using new belts. After heat treating I took it to 400 grit, again using new belts. I read some place to use belts like their free and I agree with that. Paul Bos heat treated it, so I know it was done right. I've just never had one get that effect on one side. It's a piece of 440C that's been in the shop a couple of years. I tried to satin finish it to 600 grit and it was still there. I'm going to have to beat blast it. I guess I could spread some of George's relish on it etch it.
Click to expand...

Tom, I have a tanto in my junk drawer I made last year. Got it to the final buff and that crud showed up - plus - a weird inclusion in the steel. This is probably the steel you have.
 
I have had the same type problems from both 440C and O-1.

I have about decided that these problems were caused by having "Hot" spots during the grinding process, then cooling quickly with water.

The hot spots during the grinding were caused either by my impatience or by using a dull belt, or quite probably by both.

Perhaps we are "work hardening" the steel in spots by doing this. Perhaps we are even unintentionally "heat treating" in certain spots on the blade.

These orange peel effects only show up after HT.

Lots of "Perhaps" here...........Perhaps I am out in left field on all these theories.

Robert
 
Army Ranger said:
I am having a similar problem with a piece of O1, it began to show when I started to buff. It is showing on both side in generally the same spots. I don't believe that I overheated during buffing though.

The other problem is I am using a scotch bright wheel to finish satin, an I was belt sharpening and dipping in water to cool, within 5 min (while sharpening) those orange peeled areas began to rust. I have never satin a blade, I always polish. Is O1 good to satin, or prone to rusting that quick? Have I done something else wrong????
Click to expand...
If you're going to be dipping O1, put a few spoonfulls of baking soda in the dip water, that will retard flash rust.
It's also a good idea to put a few drops of dish detergent in the water. That keeps metal particles from floating on the water, and possibly getting picked up by your blade, causing a big scratch when you wipe it off. :eek:

You may just need a different set of compounds to buff your blades with. Some compounds cause cloudiness, and that's removed with a followup finish compound.
Read about the various compounds on K&G's site, and maybe call them and get a catalog. It's pretty informative.
http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/compounds_186640_products.htm

If you're doing a satin finish, why do you need to buff?:confused:

Just take it to the desired grit, and blend it in with the scotchbrite belt. Handrubbed satin finishes are a different story though.:eek: ;)
 
According to Boride abrasives (stoning products for mold and die makers), "orange peel" is caused by grinding/polishing with too much speed or pressure causing small areas of stress on the surface of the metal.
 
I have found a simular affect in 440C bars cut from sheet stock but not in hot rolled bars.
 
Hmmm... Today I was looking at a previous knife I'd made with this thread in mind. I noticed that what you may be talking about is something I've always attributed to the grain in the steel. This is because it always goes in the same direction and is something I can watch develop as I'm working the blade, even before HT. I suppose this effect would likely show up along the grain, and now I know it's probably something I'm doing and can control. Thanks, that's very cool to know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top