order filling vs. new models....ethics dilemma

Daniel Koster

Daniel Koster

www.kosterknives.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 18, 2001
Messages
20,978
Question for those of you who take orders:

(everybody else go away...:p )



How do you guys handle working on "new designs"?

Do you work on them at the same time you're doing orders? (self-inflicted R&D)

Or do you clear out your backlog first before "experimenting"?


I have a new knife design I want to take with me to the Blade Show. But I also have a couple dozen outstanding orders. If I take time out to make this new model...I risk irking my current customers. However, if I only do orders...then I don't have anything to take to the show.

:confused:


Another example: there are some knifemakers who have backlogs out for several years, yet continue to bring knives to sell at the Blade Show. I must admit, the first time I thought about it...it didn't sit right with me. And I've heard others complain about it too. But now, I'm on the other side of the table...


Is it just a necessary evil of the business we're in?

What's the best way to handle the situation?
 
Dan,
This is a delima that I think most makers go through. A friend has been on a knifemaking bender trying to fill orders, and his knives are extremely high end!

You have to keep your customers happy, it's easier to keep the ones you have than find new ones.

The best advice I can give you is to budget your time.
I am trying to build knives for the blade show between orders. You can build a knife for the show, then fill an order and then one for the show, ect..

The other thing you can do is say well, it's about 2 months till blade. I can fill as many orders as I can in the next month and then have one month just dedicated to making knives for the show.

Sometimes I work in batches. Although all my knives are different they have similar steps. I will spend a day cutting out blades and liners and then spend a day profiling all of them. This saves a lot of time. When I finish one folder I just pick up the profiled blade and liners and start drilling holes. Pivot hole first, then backbar holes and in no time I have the frame made.

hope this helped,
Chuck
 
I don't take orders for knives but I do make custom pens, same idea different product. I feel that it is very important to maintain your customer base otherwise you may not have as many people who are willing to wait for a new knife. The customer may not always be right but s/he does have the money. Your product will never leave your table if you get the reputation for being unreliable.
 
As someone who has had to stop taking active orders due to such a backlogg I feel your pain!!

Here is what I do and will ALWAYS do............

I got into this to make ME knives. I set my wait time based on 4 knives per month and try my best to make more than that if I can BUT I will fit in stuff I want to do on the side. I dont disrupt my flow but I will cut out blanks and set them aside, grind them when I feel like it and so on. Right now I have about 8 different knives I want to work on just because I want to to see which versions will be repeat designs. No major differences but a curve here or a slight change there.

Simply put............if you fill your orders fit you in when YOU want to and dont feel bad about it at all! :thumbup:
 
have you thought about ordering a knife from yourself?

when I have orders to fill, and not enough time to experiment, or make pieces for a show, I fill out a order form with the idea I have in mind, work on all the orders up to that knife, and any other orders get filed in the system later.
 
That's an intriuging thought, wish I'd thought of it. Sometimes when things start going wrong I have to work on other designs wether they are next or not. At least till I get my head back on and can concentrate on the knife I'm suposed to be working on. One thing I try to do is to work on other designs while I'm heat treating or leting epoxy cure. Real bummer is that I work off shore and the second week I'm in seems to be the only time I realy feel like working in the shop. I'm about to the point of not taking anymore orders or at the least letting them know it'll take a while to finish. I'm about 4 months behind rite now, and it's not from orders, but life in generial getting in the way.
 
Daniel,
I make bows for living. I have the luck as the people order lots of it during the season, but not very much in the winter.
I work on the orders as I can and experiment in winter.

Perhaps youll find customer or two who want something new and always can make a new design as an order....?

Jaroslav
 
When I get an order, I give a promise date for delivery that's far enough away to allow me to work on my own new ideas in between custom orders. Admittedly, sometimes I have to work on my stuff on the weekends, but my customers come first.

I usually have a backlog, but I have never been late on a delivery.

My customers come first.:D

Learn to make your order and delivery schedule far enough away that you can spend a little time doing what you want.

I make all kinds of knives and always have something new and interesting in mind to do.

Beats watching TV, and a couple of beers at the end of a long work day helps a lot.:jerkit:
 
I do alot of work in capacity and throughput planning as my day job. When you are estimating your capacity to produce and estimating delivery dates, simply take into account your desire to work on new projects and consider them an integral part of your business. consider it just like there is always one order you are already working on, and give estimates with that in mind. If you pretend to always have one more customer, yourself, all your estimates will include time for those pieces you work on for fun. Easier said than done....
 
Hi Dan,

I stopped taking custom orders for this very reason. I began making knives full-time with the intention of spending lots of my time in the creative process. If you get at least one good design, a lot of people want in on it, and suddenly you are booked solid. This happened to me.

I'm the type of guy who believes wholeheartedly that the customer comes first. Always. Therefore, I was very dedicated to filling those orders in a timely manner, and made full communication accessible for my customers during the build process when their knife came up on my schedule.

What happened was a very satisfied customer base, and a very dissatisfied maker. My creative juices were tapped out. At that point I was making knives because I HAD to, not because I WANTED to. There is a huge difference, believe me. Anyone here who is daydreaming about becoming a full-time maker must seriously consider the long hours necessary and the level of committment necessary to pull it off.

Knifemaking, like anything else, becomes drudgery after a while of performing it constantly, day in and day out. I greatly admire people who can pull it off and really make a living at it. My hats off to you full-timers. I'll also admit that if not for my wife's income, I would have had to get a real job months ago.

I gave "full-timing it" a whole year before making a decision to get an outside job. The long lonely hours with no one to talk to except the dog are over, and I feel like I have come out a bit stronger and wiser for all of it.

I am not quite sure if any of this will help with where you head it at, Dan, but its my story. Maybe some of it will be useful to you. Good luck with whatever way you decide to go.
 
Dan, No doubt that it's just growing pains. The orders that you are currently filling now....were new designs at one time. For me, when the growing pains get tough to manage, I always have to reflect back on my original "Business plan"....the simple thoughts and goals that I had when I decided to do this for a business. Stuff like, how to treat customers, how to market my products, how to deal with problems, how many hours to work ...when to stop and pursue another career direction...etc. I never wrote these things down...but I reflect on them all the time. It helps me make these types of decisions. Being self employed....it is VERY important to run the business rather than letting the Business run you! Your work and attitude will reflect it. There's nothing wrong with raising your prices to slow things down either. Ideally, your income doesn't change...but your work load lightens a bit so you can get back to the one-on-one attention that you enjoy with your customers.

You'll figure it out, growing pains are a good sign and your concern reflects your high standards for quality and business.

-Rob
 
I follow Don Ronbinson's approach to scheduling delivers; I give myself plenty of time to enjoy, making the knife, [that is why I do this] I can also, fullfill my commitment to the customer, if I schedule enough time. Customers, keep my shop running, therefor, dissapointing them is not an option.
If I get an inspiration to build something new, I would like to do it when I am inspired, not after the fire goes out. So, for me, it makes sence to have some flexibility in scheduling my time. Fred
 
new one .. what's a new one :confused:

this is the reason I go to shows with no knives for sale.
the face is there and maybe a currant one I've made for a customer..
I'm so far out I don't dare do much for myself..
life is throwing crap at me to eat up any time I could possibly have extra..I do have two projects I'm working on that just plain means money and it can't be helped so that's what over-time is for I figure :o :) sometimes you just have to do what you have to do..
but there is a lot of good info above here.

.next week I'm cutting my shop door's open time to 9:00 to 3:30 so I don't have to deal with customers from 6:30 AM to 9:00 Am and 3:30 PM to 5:00 PM any more. it's a PITA trying to heat treat or epoxy something when a customer comes in..
after dinner ~5:00 PM I'm back at it for the over time stuff that has been used for catching up on stuff like time missed because of
Doc appointments and stuff you just don't foresee...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top