ORIGINAL critical view of Sebenza (superb folding job is not superb cutting action).

K

koolstof

Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Messages
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Hear me out, an important fresh note on the rave for "Chris Reeve Sebenza knives".

First, let me say that I've written this in the belief that all Sebenza's are folders and that I cannot help but wondering what all the fuss is about (testimonials, price). I'm considdering to buy one of those knives, you know. I have never touched or used a Sebenza but however I noticed the following:

I think that we can all agree that the primary duty of a knife is being able to do a good cutting job, being able to sink its edge in what it is meant for. All the extra features (generalization but not that out of line for utility knife) besides the edge have a supporting role and allow users to carry the edge and control it as they see fit.

So, we all expect of a knife to be there for us when we need it. Overall, there are two kinds of knives: fixed ones and folders. The major drawbock of the fixed blades is their SIZE. The major drawback of folders is the sensitive folding/locking action that actually incorporates moving parts in knife-design as opposed to fixed blades. They are relatively smaller and thus easier to carry with you. The only knife that is of any use is that knife that is right there to use.

Moving parts mean wear and tear, small corners that are hard to reach for required maintenance, margins... In all a folder is not that simple (I say "simple" not "good", it's a trade-off)and sturdy as a handle and blade made of the same piece of solid metal. Logically, their edge does not fold (!). Folding is an action that supports accesabilty to the blade when you need it.

I want a knife to do proper cutting and to keep doing that. This inherently means maintenance. Folders need more maintenance, however durable they are and however minute the design-margins are, then fixed knives. Ergonomics, looks and more are optional.

It seems that our Sebenza strains itself to unimaginable limits to be a fixed blade. It seems to want so badly to offer the demanding user BOTH the advantages of fixed and folder yet none of the drawbacks. That in itself is an excellent philosophy. What's more remarkable is that it meets these very high standards in a seemingly flawless way.

Sebenza is easy to maintain, dependable, locks tight, looks good, pivots smooth and steady, is very carry-able and comfortable. These are wonderfull features... for a folding knife. Plenty of fixed knives offer these benefits.

So the sebenza is nearly a very handy fixed blade... That is quite surprising.

It seems the edge is superb too, does an excellent job, is easy to maintain but still offers the edge retention disireable.

But why pay like crazy for in knife like this while cheaper fixed ones really offer the same thing, fit with a prper sheath and some carrying drawbacks. Seems a somewhat littele knife for big bucks. Why SHOULDN'T we expect that a folder, all folders do not let us down? What we (well.. euh... wat I want at least...*lol*) want is the keenest of edges and superb retention for a fair price. I mean, considdering what you pay for your Sebie, should you be surprized that you can cut an apple with it?

Well, I'm stil considdering of buying a Sebie but if that knife can't handle flimsy critic of me than what CAN it handle :-p

Kind greetings and see ya!
 
koostof,

I've read your post 3 times and I still don't see what your point of contention is.

Could you clarify/summarize in a sentence or two?

Thanks
 
Originally posted by koolstof

But why pay like crazy for a knife like this while cheaper fixed ones really offer the same thing, fit with a proper sheath and some carrying drawbacks. Seems a somewhat little knife for big bucks. Why SHOULDN'T we expect that a folder, all folders do not let us down?
Click to expand...

Not eveyone has the ability to carry a good, solid fixed blade everyday. In some instances the law prevents us from doing so as well as the basic practicality of carrying such a knife in public. Therefore, one must consider a viable option. For me that option is the Sebenza. It suits my needs and I have no problem paying for the best knife I can that will outlast me and my children.

Some folders, not all, are made pretty poorly in regards to design and overall function. Others are made very well but offer nothing in the way of "do-it-yourself" maintenance. Thought they may be rock solid folders I hate the fact that I have to send a knife in for a good cleaning. I do not want to be content with a hlf clean knife. The Sebenza fits the bill when it comes to DIY maintenance. Sadly, other knives in the Sebenzas price range do not.
 
K.V Collucci,

You are so right, if I do buy one it's beacause of exactly the same reasons! :-)
 
LOL DaveH

And I thought that it was me all along. . . ;) Was going to post something but brain was slightly fried after reading the thread starter 5 times. :p

I'm still not sure if koolstof. . .

1) Has a Sebenza and is disgruntle

2) Is disgruntle cuz he doesn't have a Sebenza

3) Thought that a Sebenza is a fixed blade and is now disgruntle

4) Has a Sebenza and it's too much to take care of. . .thus causing him to be disgruntle

5) He's opened and closed his Sebbie so much. . .all moving parts have now worn away. . .thus causing him to be disgruntle

6) They are more expensive (or cheaper) than a fixed blade. . .thus causing him to be disgruntle

7) A Sebenza won't cut his apple :confused:

And last but not least. . .

Posted by koolstof:

. . .considdering of buying a Sebie but if that knife can't handle flimsy critic of me than what CAN it handle.
Click to expand...

I just returned from the garage. . .where I performed some "flimsy critic" on my Sebbie.

My Sebbie kicked my a@#. . . . :mad:

;) :D
 
DaveH,


Yeah, I can understand that I'm not that clear (English is but my third language, you know). Just to set the record straight, I going to answer this as if you want to know what I favour in the CRK-Sebenza... If that's not it, just let me know.

All of my information is hearsay, but your own experience can be just as biassed (chauvinism, stuborness, snobism). Remember, read what it says, I'm not saying Sebenza is snobbish, just that your personal experis not completely objective too.

Pro's:

-customer service and care
-ease of maintenance
-this is supercool: you can disassemble the knife yourself!!!! That I really love (and since it does not void guarantee, what can I say but: outstanding!
-true: a folder is more maniable.
-legal issues (forgot that one, is however very important)
-resale value
-looks sober (plain)
-highttech combined with craftsmanship
-lots and lots of positive testimonials and press articles (however, the mass is occasionally wrong *lol*).
-titanium handle
-ergonomics
-pivot action
-safe and good lock
-thin blade

This is not a crusade, only thing I'm pointing out that the sheer popularity mixed with the big price is rather uncommon, it against economic laws *lol*. Ask yourself: you stumble into the knife world and you get to know this model, quite surprising, isn't it! It seems very awkward that the mass can afford exceptionnal quality and to believe that it is not a hype is hard.

Cons:

-Price


See ya.
 
First let me say I've never had a problem with the sharpness of a large or small Sebenza. I own a quite a few. Second, if you opt to get a decorated one, either wood, color anodized, or silver contrast, they are anything far from somber looking. Actually I think Sebbie's are one of the better looking semi-production/custom folders on the market. But as you mentioned, the knife has to perform, not just look good. And Sebenza's do just that...perform. I've been using large and small for years to do everything from field dress large game animals to mundane chores around the house and in the kitchen. Never once had one fail me in any respect.

Before coming to conculusions based on nothing. GO BUY ONE. Use it, abuse it, you won't be disappointed.:)

Look how ugly all these are...:rolleyes: http://www.truenorthknives.com/tnk_1mainframe.htm
 
koolstof,

OK, now I got you, maybe this will help.

Initially it can be expensive. But when you count how many times I haven't bought a knife because it was not as nice as the sebenza, I've saved many times the inital cost. (only 3 nice spyderco's is one sebenza )

I don't have enough information to be able to say that the higher the price something is, the less popular it is. In my opinion, the effect is just the opposite.
 
Good observation about mass appeal AND high price defying the law of economics, so what must be the reason? I would venture to guess that those who have made the decision to buy a Sebenza have perceived at a minimum that they are getting appropriate VALUE for the investment.
That the Sebenza remains extremely popular, even backlogged, for so many years supports the hypothesis. The Sebenza is not a fad or an error of the masses; it is a hard-working tool that has proven its value over the long run.
There are fully functional equivalents to the Sebenza at less than half its price. Do they cut as well? Yes. Are they as reliable? Yes. Are they as well made? Probably not (per Ron Lake, the Sebenza is "better than custom quality" in terms of precsion tolerances). Do the makers or companies stand behind their product as does CRK? Some do.
Is the Sebenza as stout as a fixed blade? No, but CLOSE ENOUGH (and certainly better than a fixed blade with poor heat treat or lower quality steel. If the Sebenza fails in use, it has either been abused or CRK will of course stand behind it.)
So the initial amount spent on a Sebenza becomes an INVESTMENT in a solid working tool, rather than a throw away purchase. It is a tool that will serve well for a lifetime+, and can periodically be brought to new for a modest fee. It will do anything a folder can and should be called upon to do. And do it with some extra class. Do we pay for this extra "class?" Yes. Is it worth it? The market success and reputation earned and kept would indicate that it is, indeed.
 
Koolstof:

1. Folders compromise strength/rigidity for portability/convenience. But the Sebenza has the best rigidity of any folder I know except possibly Tom Mayo folders.

2. For tough, long jobs, the drawback of the Sebenza isn't the rigidity, but the grip. The flat scales are definitely inferior to the fixed blade's rounded grip. Like I said, it's a compromise. I reach for my CRK Aviator or Scott Cook "Owyhee" for the longer jobs.

3. I wanted a Chris Reeve "fixed-blade Sebenza," and found it in my Scott Cook "Owyhee," which closely resembles a fixed-blade Sebenza with a hand-filling grip.

4. A fixed-blade would scare my fellow co-workers, but my folders usually don't trigger negative reactions. Generally, folding, pocket knives are considered tools, by the public, while fixed-blades are seen as weapons.

5. I think you're over-intellectualizing the difference between folders and fixed-blades. If the Sebenza fills your needs, why worry about the theoretical liabilities of folders? Live in the real world, not your head.
 
Well Well well.

Yet another "Sebenzas suck. I have never touched one before in my life" post.

Alrighty then.

Why is it that people feel the need to post lengthy criticisms on things they know nothing about?

This one takes the cake, though.

He says he has never owned or even touched a Sebenza before, then goes into an essay on why he thinks they are over-hyped.

Dude, why don't you write a review for Car and Driver on the F350 Ferrari you have never seen, let alone driven.

Jeez.
 
My standard answer to this type of question is that the "market" will determine the price of a product. When someone makes the remark that a Sebenza is way overpriced, I point to the fact that they are backordered at the CRK shop. This means that more people want to buy the knife than CRK is able to produce. So in an economic sense, the market has determined that the Sebenza is underpriced since demand exceeds supply. And like I tell people, get the Sebenza, it will save you money in the long run. I can't tell you how many benchmades and syderco's I went through before I found the sebenza. The clincher for me is that CRK is left hand friendly and that alone makes me a loyal customer. Not to mention the fact that they are a very well made knife with outstanding customer support. Tom Mayo carries a sebenza. To me that says a lot.:D ;) :cool:
 
What Scott Dog says is absolutely true. Folk Singer Don McLean said it another way, "What you pay, is what it's worth."
 
Don't forget the hand polished double convex edge. IMHO the best factory edge of any knife at any price!

One other thing, just because CNC machinse are used and a select few are trusted to make these knives is all that seperates them from "custom"

Look at Emerson hand made and Emerson factory made...:confused:

Now *there* is a real difference in quality. Mr Reeve was unusual in that he made the transition from custom to production without letting the desire to cash in harm quality.

Now if only we can get mr Reeve to make a few knives for Formites... I would be a very happy bunny. A handmade knife from Mr Reeve would pretty much be my hog heaven.:)
 
Originally posted by koolstof
DaveH,

Pro's: 14 listed including resale

Cons: Price
Click to expand...



Like most of us I have a bunch of knives which include three other CRK's. Look, I own eight Microtechs which cost over $2,000. This includes two of my favorites, an S90V LCC D/A and an Ultratech. Don't talk to me about price.

What I need to know, just what should I do with all these knives. All I carry now is my leather Classic.

Eric
 
There are a lot of fine knives on the market today. But when I go to the field with a folder I always take my large regular Sebenza. Not Microtech (and I just love them, especially UT6 and UDT), not custom folder but Sebenza. What I carry as EDC depends on where I go, whom I meet, what I wear. But anyway, you will not find a better "cutting tool that folds" than Sebenza...
 
When I want a fixed blade, but can't carry one (not descrete enough, or that doing so would be illegal), I reach for a Sebenza or one of my Striders. They are as close as you're going to get and they look good too. 'nuf said.
 
I dont think Koolstoff is really bashing the Sebenza, he's asking us, in a slightly convoluted way (remember, english is NOT his first language and he does well considering) to convince him why its worth the higher than normal price, so he can justify buying one. He's clearly a very analytical person, very stuck on exploring the theory of things, and he's playing devil's advocate i think, in the hopes of hearing our best arguments on why he should buy one, so he can justify paying the price, that we all know is higher than most production folders.

One thing that strikes me though is that $300 really shouldnt be THAT hard to justify spending on ANY quality item. A decent automatic watch will run a few thousand, a really fine pen, a few hundred, a decent gun is about $500-$700, should it be so surprising that arguably the finest production knife costs a little over $300? Just doesnt seem like THAT much to me in this perspective. I think $300 grabs me as a very reasonable amount to pay for an extremely well made knife.

Yesterday, i was curious to see how many people wanted to sell their CR knives, so i searched on Ebay, in ALL of Ebay, 3 people were selling their Sebenzas, and i see fewer still for sale in the forums, i found about 250 Benchmades at auction on Ebay and countless others in the forums, seems most CR owners keep their knives, while a LOT of Benchmade owners do not. Anyone who claims, and i have seen such claims, that Benchmade's quality is equal to CR is entirely without credibility in my opinion, and has an agenda, or is blind.

I have said it before, i own customs, i LOVE customs, but the fit and finish and build quality of a Sebenza is on par with just about any custom i have ever examined, if there are customs that have it beat, it aint by much. So yes, you pay near custom prices, but youre getting a knife that is as good or better than most customs. You get true custom quality, at a discount, so again, why is it overpriced?

But to quickly speak to his question, the Sebenza is worth its price, plain and simple, and if youre someone who longs for and appreciates the finest possible quality, you will LOVE the knife and realize its priced where it should be. There is a REASON for all of the positive comments CR gets, the hype, and thus, its not really hype, but the reported experiences of very satisfied owners.
 
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