Original knife designs on paper, what now?

[MountainLyon]

I don’t know the first thing about making knives, drawing them is as far as I go, so what are my options?

Knives are my latest obsessive-compulsive fanatical hobby, set off by real uses for them, hunting, fishing, self defense, camping, hiking, chopping/digging weeds ect. I have a few knives from Buck, Ka Bar, Kershaw, and Spyderco to name my favorite brands, no custom knives yet and nothing over $100 (even if they should have cost more.) I refuse to spend over $100 on a knife that isn’t exactly what I want, and the knives I want don’t seem to exist yet. (I’m very picky about outdoors gear. I spent well over $1000 on my latest airgun for varmint and small game hunting, after much research and deliberation, but I would have designed it differently.)

I started drawing the knives I wanted, and kept searching online for similar custom or factory knives. I found a few that were somewhat similar to a couple of my drawings, and it would let the wind out of my sails a bit because someone else thought of it, then I’d think about how it means that my ideas are doable and how much about them are still different even if the general shape is similar. One of my blade shape ideas in particular I have never seen anywhere else and seems very useful for self defense.

I have fixed blade hunting designs as well as the unique fixed and folding self defense concept designs. From what I’ve read and know from the knives I own, S30V seems like one steel that is well suited to all the designs, with varying blade thickness and tempered to different Rockwell hardness for different uses. They are not likely suitable for hand forged high carbon, except maybe one. I like exotic wood scales like lignum vitae, amboina burl, ebony, ect. and titanium frames on folders. I have a bad feeling how expensive it’ll be, not sure I’m ready for that, but I want to know what would be involved.

Anyone make prototype models first out of clay or wood? I might carve a couple out of wood when I have the time, to get the feel for them and see if any changes need to be made.

I’m tempted to scan some of my drawings and post them here, but how do you share ideas without them being stolen? I know some knives are patented, but what about custom work?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

 

[polarbearforge]

I don’t know the first thing about making knives, drawing them is as far as I go, so what are my options?

I'd start by doing a search, similar questions have been asked many times. Get some books, do some reading. Find maker nearby and ask if he/she teaches.

They are not likely suitable for hand forged high carbon, except maybe one.

Even without seeing the designs, I'll argue that one. That is a large field of steels eliminated. There are a few specific circumstances where they wouldn't be my first choice, for instance, where sparking is a hazard, where magnetism is a negative, or where corrosion resistance is the top proriority. And not to sound flippant or rude, but if you haven't made knives before, how can you eliminate that entire category of steel?

I’m tempted to scan some of my drawings and post them here, but how do you share ideas without them being stolen? I know some knives are patented, but what about custom work?

In short, you can't. Most likely, somebody, somewhere has done some thing similar. They may have made it and scrapped it, or any number of other possibilities. I believe (someone please correct my if I'm wrong) that certain designs can be copyrighted and/or trademarked. Patents for knives I thought where mainly for processes. There are other threads here as well on that topic.

Jamie

 

[Hesparus]

I second everything Jamie said and I want to elaborate on some things.
First, you shouldn't worry about people "stealing" your designs. Even the full-time makers here post pictures of their knives without worrying about it hurting their sales. If someone likes your design they might replicate it or modify it to their own style - you can't do anything about it. So post your designs and you'll get feedback from some of the best knifemakers in the world and what you will gain will be greater than anything you could possibly lose (which is nothing, really). Everyone here loves to talk about design but we dont do it very often. Remember, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And don't worry about finding someone else who has made a knife like one of yours. If you're only getting into into knives recently, there are people out there who have had 50 years of experience in designing knives before you got into it. If what you've designed looks like anything they've made, you should pat yourself on the back.
Second, I think most makers do some kind of prototype in wood, or something, when they are making a new design. I've got a whole drawer full of them. I used to use 1/8" fiber board (kind of like really thick paper) until I ran out and started using 3/8" pine. Use whatever you want, but make sure it's easy to work with because you're probably going to want to make a few of them for each new design.
I won't talk about steel choice, because there are people here who are far more qualified to talk about it than I am.
Beyond that, everyone has books that they like to recommend. The one I like is Step-by-step Knifemaking: you can do it! by David Boye. And deffinately post your designs so we can talk about them.

- Chris
(couldn't stay away)

 

[MountainLyon]

I found the archives, but not a search feature… I’ll read more when I have time. I did some searching on google and found lots of knife making books, I’ll probably buy one or two, including the one by David Boye that Hesparus mentioned.

As far as not using hand forged high carbon, I figured it’d be the hand forging that’d be a problem with the more unusual shapes, but that’s just a guess. High carbon steel could definitely still be used, especially for the bigger fixed blades, but if I had to pick one steel for all my ideas, (obviously I don’t have to do that) it’d be S30V, especially for folders and smaller hunting/fishing fixed blades that would probably get put away while still wet sometimes.

I’ll try to scan some drawings tonight to share, I might just save the most original designs for last. It doesn’t sound like I’ll be getting any patents if that only applies to the process, I didn’t want to bother with that kind of stuff anyway. To my understanding, copyrights are for literary works and art, do knives classify as art?

I guess I could see myself getting into knife making, I’m not sure, but it could happen. I already have a limited supply of some nice handle material, dark lignum vitae from exposed stumps cut hundreds of years ago, where I used to live in the Virgin Islands, some outrageous manzanita burl I found hiking that I’ve never found the likes of again, a couple deer antlers, abalone shells, ect.

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[krept]

I usually draw designs on thick cardboard, cut them out to see how they feel in the hand. maybe an art supply store will have some balsa wood that will be close in thickness to a steel bar.

Forging is great when you have a design that doesn't quite fit within the dimensions of a straight bar of steel.

I've never ground S30V, but have heard it's a PITA to work with. That might be discouraging. It's $$$$ as well. For those two reasons I certainly wouldn't want to start with it. 154CM should suit you almost as well.

As far as people stealing your designs... it happens all the time to people and companies. I doubt there is much you can do to prevent it. If you post your designs, just write the date they were created on them... at least that way you'll be able to claim ancestor.

good luck and cheers

 

[Hesparus]

I don't think there are very many people who will only touch a blade with a hammer. Even a forged blade will have a certain ammount of cutting and grinding done to it. I have heard of people doing simple forging to a bar just to change various dimentional aspects of it (as krept suggests) and then treating it as a stock-removal blade. We'll just have to wait and see how "unusual" your shapes are, but kukhuris are pretty unusual and they can be forged with only a little bit of practice.
I second the 154cm recomendation. It's a reasonably easy steel to work with and it gives great results (and it's what I use on 90% of my blades). Before I knew the difference, I was really into the high-tech steels, too, but the only time you're likely to know the difference is when you're grinding it, not when you're using it.
If you do decide to give knifemaking a shot (and I say go for it), remember to start small and simple.

- Chris

 

[MountainLyon]

Hey folks, sorry a day late, that’s sort of on time for me. Here’s a small hunting/fishing fixed blade drawing, likely what I’d try to make first if I try to make a knife. Small and simple, sort of... If I try, it won’t be S30V, probably yard scrap like a broken mower blade or something. I drew this inspired by the curves of my Kershaw chive several months ago, I think I had seen a Buck mini alpha hunter also. I have since gotten a mini alpha, and it’s the same length I drew, 6 ½”, but the blade on my drawing is longer, thinner, and straighter, less of a skinner blade.

I like a short handle on a small fixed blade for keeping overall weight down in my pack. My index finger is often on the spine of the blade when I use it anyway, to keep from stabbing too far into the guts. Some file grooves on the spine for finger grip makes sense for that also. I definitely prefer fixed blades for grungy fish and game cleaning.

I found that my drawing looked somewhat like the Benchmade Snody 210 activator but different size and handle material, I like wood. The CRKT Ryan plan B is very similar in shape, but totally different purpose and materials. I find most bird and trout knives too thin or straight for my liking. I like the curved design for comfort and control, with a beefy enough blade to chop through heavy tendons breaking down a wild turkey at camp, and for cutting large salmon into steaks through the backbone.

This was drawn mostly freehand, so curves are not exact. The size gets changed when I load it on my computer, now it looks a little sloppy, I apologize. Supposed to be a 3” blade, 3 ½” handle, 1” wide, 1/8” thick blade, maybe 3/16” scales, 1/16” exposed tang around scales. I like checkered wood for grip like my rifle stocks, not too ornate to detract from the natural beauty of wood. Ovals left not checkered to show wood grain around staggered pins would look sort of like eyes.

Balsa wood models or cardboard models! Good idea, nice and easy, thanks Krept.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there have been custom knives made like this, any I should check out? I don’t know why the curved shape isn’t used more.

 

[Hesparus]

That looks like a pretty sound design. You'll learn a lot when you make a model of it.
How did you plan on doing the selective checkering?

- Chris

 

[MountainLyon]

Thanks Hesparus. As far as how I was planning to do the checkering, well, I wasn’t planning on making the knife to begin with, so I’m not exactly sure. I’ve done some wood carvings before, I’d guess that part might be easier for me than the steel work. Maybe I’d just stipple the grip instead like the grip on my old Feinwerkbau ten meter match pistol.

I don’t have as much time to read about knives on the computer/books right now, but I’ll start a new thread when I have time to scan and post the big self defense design. It barely fits in the scanner, I just checked. :^)

 

[molinee]

MLyon..... I think that what you are proposing "Only designing knives and Not actually fabricating them" will be a fruitless endeavor. Probably 100 percent of knife makers and 90 percent of knife users have/are sketching knife profiles and designs. And as mentioned above, knife clones pop up as soon as a new design hits the marketplace. The knife sketch you have provided looks pretty cool to me. The sad note is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of similar knife designs out there already. You pretty much have to have a "finished product" to get the attention you are looking for. The knife business is a tough nut to crack as far as making $$ goes. Maybe you can find a buddy who would want to work with you.... You design, He makes the blade, You make the handle, he etc etc...... Who knows - you might be the next big name knife maker we will be taking about in a few years.
-Follow your dream and good luck!

 

[MountainLyon]

Thanks for the encouragement Molinee.

I just ordered a couple books, Step by step knifemaking by David Boye and Wayne Goddard's $50 knife shop.