Original purpose and popular use of the bk9

[Silver Needle]

Last weekend I had some quality time with my bk9 around the yard making big fallen limbs into smaller pieces that could fit into a fire pit. I took a few breaks just to enjoy this knife and I made some partial try sticks.

Despite the length of the blade and my noobish skill level, nobody here will be surprised that the knife worked really well. My dainty little thumb didn't get along with the thumb ramp, something I never thought much about when chopping and batoning.

This got me wondering.... the 9 is the "combat bowie" but in my experience I only ever hear this great blade come up when talking about bushcraft and wood processing. Not once have I heard a conversation like: "I'm being deployed to the middle east in a month and I'm looking for a good combat knife", but rather the bk9 is usually the first thing suggested when someone asks: "I'm looking for a good chopper". Has the general use of this knife really changed since it was released? If so, do enough bushcrafters enjoy the thumb ramp and clip point?

I'm definitely not trying to question The Master's design, just being curious about how this combat knife seems to be primarily a wilderness tool.

 

[caine]

Had a buddy that carried a bk9 2003-2004 Iraq

 

[CM_Rick]

If I'm wrong I know I will be corrected, but I've talked to Ethan about this knife a few times. He designed this knife because he wanted a Bowie knife in his line up simply because Americans like to have a Bowie knife to fight with. That's how it got its name. Jim Bowie fought with one in the Alamo. The thumb ramp was added due to popularity of the time. The clip point is historically better for combat because of its piercing capability (hint: it's designed to be sharpened). The fact that it makes a fantastic woods tool was all just a huge bonus from the design. Ethan will tell you that he "just got lucky". Either way, a damn good knife is a damn good knife... period.

 

[Silver Needle]

caine, that is really cool, I'm sure it served him well.
I wonder if more examples like this will pop up.

Thanks, CM. I didn't think enough about the American bowie aspect of the name. That is some nice insight.

 

[The Warrior]

The thumb ramp was added due to popularity of the time.

If I remember correctly, someone in the knife industry, can't remember who, suggested adding the thumb ramp.

 

[1066vik]

IIRC, the thumb ramp was part of the BK7 design due to a requirement for a military bid. (think integral guard)
it didn't win the contract, but was deemed acceptable for carry in the field.
the 9 & 10 were designed after this and also included the thumb ramp so they would also meet that guideline.

at least that's how I remember the discussion - I could be totally of base, but it sounds cool!

 

[DOC-CANADA]

And, of course, the 12 also has the thumb ramp.

I like the thumb ramp on some knives, not on others.

 

[Silver Needle]

IIRC, the thumb ramp was part of the BK7 design due to a requirement for a military bid. (think integral guard)
it didn't win the contract, but was deemed acceptable for carry in the field.
the 9 & 10 were designed after this and also included the thumb ramp so they would also meet that guideline.

at least that's how I remember the discussion - I could be totally of base, but it sounds cool!

That makes sense, I didn't think of military requirements!

Doc, I realize now a lot of beckers have thumbramps. And I do admit that not liking it is completely just my own personal preference. For as many people who grind them off I'm sure there are many that prefer having it there.

 

[bush-haus]

Other then aesthetics it never gets in the way for me as I only use the King 9 for batonning and chopping wood\limbs and such. It's not a knife I use when I need to choke up or pinch hold. I would have much rather seen some jimping but again I never have my thumb there anyway so it really doesn't matter.

Ron
Beckerhead #32

 

[52100]

If I'm wrong I know I will be corrected, but I've talked to Ethan about this knife a few times. He designed this knife because he wanted a Bowie knife in his line up simply because Americans like to have a Bowie knife to fight with. That's how it got its name. Jim Bowie fought with one in the Alamo. The thumb ramp was added due to popularity of the time. The clip point is historically better for combat because of its piercing capability (hint: it's designed to be sharpened). The fact that it makes a fantastic woods tool was all just a huge bonus from the design. Ethan will tell you that he "just got lucky". Either way, a damn good knife is a damn good knife... period.

I don't know much more about Bowie fighting knives than what I've learned from reading Bill Bagwell's book, but IMO the BK9 isn't much of a "Bowie" by Bowie standards. It's one HELLUVA woods blade, and the undisputed King, but even with the swedge sharpened (meant for back-cuts as much as piercing) it's a big, slow knife compared to one that's purposely built for fighting. IF I lived in the mid-1800s when knife duels were fashionable, I'd want as much reach (length) as I could get, while keeping the blade as light and fast as possible. I'd also want a lot of training (academies were actually opened for training this "sport"), and finally.........................a heaping serving of good luck.

So don't get me wrong, the BK9 is an awesome blade, and might work well for fending off wild critters as constantly reported in the "it happened to me" column of Outdoor Life, but for a fast/lively/slicey blade, I think the BK15 would be a better choice against someone equally armed.

I agree with Ethan that the Bowie knife is well loved by Americans, but IMO a BK7 lengthened in the middle and thinned a little more would be closer to a true Bowie as represented by the hundreds of surviving copies from the era when they were used most.

 

[Silverthorn]

I don't know much more about Bowie fighting knives than what I've learned from reading Bill Bagwell's book, but IMO the BK9 isn't much of a "Bowie" by Bowie standards. It's one HELLUVA woods blade, and the undisputed King, but even with the swedge sharpened (meant for back-cuts as much as piercing) it's a big, slow knife compared to one that's purposely built for fighting. IF I lived in the mid-1800s when knife duels were fashionable, I'd want as much reach (length) as I could get, while keeping the blade as light and fast as possible. I'd also want a lot of training (academies were actually opened for training this "sport"), and finally.........................a heaping serving of good luck.

So don't get me wrong, the BK9 is an awesome blade, and might work well for fending off wild critters as constantly reported in the "it happened to me" column of Outdoor Life, but for a fast/lively/slicey blade, I think the BK15 would be a better choice against someone equally armed.

I agree with Ethan that the Bowie knife is well loved by Americans, but IMO a BK7 lengthened in the middle and thinned a little more would be closer to a true Bowie as represented by the hundreds of surviving copies from the era when they were used most.

BK-5 if you want a big fighter, 15 if you want something a bit smaller. Imho

 

[Chameleonbear]

I don't know much more about Bowie fighting knives than what I've learned from reading Bill Bagwell's book, but IMO the BK9 isn't much of a "Bowie" by Bowie standards. It's one HELLUVA woods blade, and the undisputed King, but even with the swedge sharpened (meant for back-cuts as much as piercing) it's a big, slow knife compared to one that's purposely built for fighting. IF I lived in the mid-1800s when knife duels were fashionable, I'd want as much reach (length) as I could get, while keeping the blade as light and fast as possible. I'd also want a lot of training (academies were actually opened for training this "sport"), and finally.........................a heaping serving of good luck.

So don't get me wrong, the BK9 is an awesome blade, and might work well for fending off wild critters as constantly reported in the "it happened to me" column of Outdoor Life, but for a fast/lively/slicey blade, I think the BK15 would be a better choice against someone equally armed.

I agree with Ethan that the Bowie knife is well loved by Americans, but IMO a BK7 lengthened in the middle and thinned a little more would be closer to a true Bowie as represented by the hundreds of surviving copies from the era when they were used most.

If I was in that situation, I'd want a 5.

 

[SALTY]

If I'm wrong I know I will be corrected, but I've talked to Ethan about this knife a few times. He designed this knife because he wanted a Bowie knife in his line up simply because Americans like to have a Bowie knife to fight with. That's how it got its name. Jim Bowie fought with one in the Alamo. The thumb ramp was added due to popularity of the time. The clip point is historically better for combat because of its piercing capability (hint: it's designed to be sharpened). The fact that it makes a fantastic woods tool was all just a huge bonus from the design. Ethan will tell you that he "just got lucky". Either way, a damn good knife is a damn good knife... period.

So many times in my life I have been lucky - other times good; I'll take lucky over good any day!

The BK9 is so good at so many things that it would seem difficult to ascertain which attributes were by design and which, if any, were by chance. Edge to spine distance is a little fat for close work, compared to say a BK4 and it's not as handy to carry on one's belt if getting in and out of vehicles with the stock sheath but other than that, I could hardly think how I ever got by camping without one. There are other Becker knives that are better at specific tasks and, truth be told, the BK9 isn't even my favorite Becker but remember, you can't not have a Nine!

 

[CM_Rick]

I don't know much more about Bowie fighting knives than what I've learned from reading Bill Bagwell's book, but IMO the BK9 isn't much of a "Bowie" by Bowie standards. It's one HELLUVA woods blade, and the undisputed King, but even with the swedge sharpened (meant for back-cuts as much as piercing) it's a big, slow knife compared to one that's purposely built for fighting. IF I lived in the mid-1800s when knife duels were fashionable, I'd want as much reach (length) as I could get, while keeping the blade as light and fast as possible. I'd also want a lot of training (academies were actually opened for training this "sport"), and finally.........................a heaping serving of good luck.

So don't get me wrong, the BK9 is an awesome blade, and might work well for fending off wild critters as constantly reported in the "it happened to me" column of Outdoor Life, but for a fast/lively/slicey blade, I think the BK15 would be a better choice against someone equally armed.

I agree with Ethan that the Bowie knife is well loved by Americans, but IMO a BK7 lengthened in the middle and thinned a little more would be closer to a true Bowie as represented by the hundreds of surviving copies from the era when they were used most.

Well, from what I've gathered concerning bowie knives is that they all share a few design features. 1) they are usually between 7"-9" in length-give or take a little. 2) they have a clip point. 3) have relatively high blade heights. I would imagine the bk9 would look a lot more like a traditional Bowie knife if it had brass guards, and a stag handle. I agree that knives designed for fighting are lighter, well balanced, have a lower profile blade height, and should have a fully swedged spine. But, remember the Bowie knife didn't become the "bowie" knife until it was used in combat by Jim Bowie. I'm pretty sure that it was originally intended as a do all, large hunter's knife carried by plainsmen. One could make the argument it was the first "survival" knife.

 

[Ethan Becker]

The Nine was inspired by a knife that Bill Moran made for Ken Warner when he went to Vietnam as a correspondent for the American Rifleman....... Uncle Ken wanted a "do it all" blade - fieldcraft, survival, mini machete and last ditch defense....... I had been thinking about a Bowie style blade for a long time and when I first held the Warner-Moran I got to scheming..... A great blade that...... Mikey had it made in Japan..... Short run........ I have always felt that a soldier is an armed camper and in the current era a blade is back up to a gun firing fixed cartridges and NOT the primary weapon....... There was a Camillus BK-9HH or hog hunter model with the clip sharpened for serious sticking power........ Btw the only group I am aware of that LIKES the blade as a primary are the Ghurkas and there is damn little finesse in their approach to the bladed fray........ The "Original" Bowie (or at least what the best Bowie scholars believe to be the blade That James Bowie wielded at the sand bar) is a giant steak slicer with a pretty thick spine....... A beast not a rapier, with no guard and no clip........Very in Bowie like by modern tastes......

I see a very short future for a modern warrior who plans on defeating his foe in some kind of blade to blade event unless both participants are alone on the field and both have run plumb out of ammo...... Possible of course but, unlikely........

Americans have been carrying "Bowie" knives in a dizzying array of sizes and styles off to war for over a hundred and fifty years...... Big knives bring utility and comfort to those going in harms way and the Nine is the first of my big Bowie designs and, yes I got damned lucky with it...........

 

[Silver Needle]

Thanks everyone. I think I got so focused on combat vs bushcraft that I forgot about the bowie heritage.

Special thanks to Mr. Becker for the always valuable, insightful and appreciated input. Your comment not only was very helpful, but your time means a lot!

The 9 remains my favorite becker!

 

[zzyzzogeton]

The Nine was inspired by a knife that Bill Moran made for Ken Warner when he went to Vietnam as a correspondent for the American Rifleman....... Uncle Ken wanted a "do it all" blade - fieldcraft, survival, mini machete and last ditch defense....... I had been thinking about a Bowie style blade for a long time and when I first held the Warner-Moran I got to scheming..... A great blade that...... Mikey had it made in Japan..... Short run........ I have always felt that a soldier is an armed camper and in the current era a blade is back up to a gun firing fixed cartridges and NOT the primary weapon....... There was a Camillus BK-9HH or hog hunter model with the clip sharpened for serious sticking power........ Btw the only group I am aware of that LIKES the blade as a primary are the Ghurkas and there is damn little finesse in their approach to the bladed fray........ The "Original" Bowie (or at least what the best Bowie scholars believe to be the blade That James Bowie wielded at the sand bar) is a giant steak slicer with a pretty thick spine....... A beast not a rapier, with no guard and no clip........Very in Bowie like by modern tastes......

I see a very short future for a modern warrior who plans on defeating his foe in some kind of blade to blade event unless both participants are alone on the field and both have run plumb out of ammo...... Possible of course but, unlikely........

Americans have been carrying "Bowie" knives in a dizzying array of sizes and styles off to war for over a hundred and fifty years...... Big knives bring utility and comfort to those going in harms way and the Nine is the first of my big Bowie designs and, yes I got damned lucky with it...........

After being assaulted earlier in the year (1827), Rezin Bowie (Jim's brother and commissioner of the making of Jim's knife), gave Jim the knife that would become famous in the September 1827 "sand bar fight" so that he (Jim), "would never again be caught unarmed".

Per a letter Rezin (pronounced "reason") wrote to The Planter's Advocate dated August 24, 1838, "The length of the blade was nine and one-quarters inches, its width one and one-half inches, single edged and not curved, like a large butcher knife". Elsewhere in the letter, Rezin explained that the knife had a "small guard" because Jim had once badly cut a finger cleaning a rabbit when his bloody hand slipped off the handle and preferred a small guard for that reason.

Rezin later said in another letter in the 1850s that he had had no input or influence in how "modern" cutlers were making what were being called "Bowie knives" at the time, but that he thought that Jim would have liked how the knives had changed. i.e., large fighting guards and sharpened clip points.

It is speculated that the blade was sharpened on both edges because::

1) the knife was designed to be an all-round usage knife, including use as a weapon after the single shot muzzle loading pistol Jim had was discharged.
2) many of the prevailing fighting knives of the time were typically sharpened on the spine for 3 or 4 inches (especially among Spanish and South American pirates of the day).
3) Jim was allegedly well trained in knife and rapier fighting and knew the value of a sharp point for thrusting and a sharp swedge for back cuts.

 

[52100]

I just came home from a long day at work and re-read my post. I'm afraid I came off very blunt in my haste to convey my thoughts before heading to the salt mines. I'll blame my post on poor judgment in trying to type a quality post while fighting a cold.

I LOVE the BK9 (and have a few), and it would be one of my top candidates for carrying into combat (also the the BK7), where it would only be used for fighting if/when my guns ran out of fuel, and while performing all other duties with aplomb. I agree that a knife duel during modern combat isn't likely at all, which is why I consider the BK9 and 7 great combat knives--------------able to tackle many tasks with minimal compromises, rather than dedicated fighting knives which would give up some versatility.

I've got the utmost respect for Ethan's ability to design great blades...............and handles(!), as witness by my owning many multiples of almost the entire BK lineup.

I'll quit now while I'm (sort of) ahead, because even this short post took twenty minutes of typing and editing.

Time for cider vinegar and a long night's sleep. I'll return when in better form.

 

[BeeKayNutCase]

..if/when my guns ran out of fuel..

Hmmm. Sounds like you're a flamethrower man 52100..

Uncle E: I would literally saw off my right arm with a blunt BK13 to see the Warner-Moran knife that the 9 was influenced by..

Zz: your new name is Zzyzzyclopaedia.. or WikiZzyzz..