OT: AWD vs. FWD

A

arty

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I live in the snowy Midwest, but it is in flatland - central Illinois. Would I gain much by getting AWD as opposed to front wheel drive here?

I am considering a new car/van/SUV. Most of the vehicles I see off the road in a ditch are SUVs - when the weather gets really bad. Is AWD worth the loss in gas mileage, and do any of you know how much better gas use would be with FWD instead of AWD?

I am considering small SUVs, like the CRV or the RAV-4, but haven't ruled out a Sienna yet. Anyone own any of these? How do they do in mileage and in the snow?
 
Grew up in Northern IL, now spend my time with the Ice storms and water here in OK(Red clay doesn't absorb water, so the raods don't drain,t hey turn into rivers).

I would stick with FWD. AWD tends to not give much increase in handling unless you really know what you're doing, and as you've already seen, most of time, just gievs drivers false confidence so that they end up off side of the road. FWD still tends to be easeist to drive in the snow, etc, all drivers together.

Course, I spent several years driving a 76 seville, RWD through the snowstorms up there. WIth that big old tank, was fun, as I used to have no trouble with traffic. Plows would hit left line and about half of right lane up around LIbertyville. So everyone else would be in the clear left lane. I'd just cruise along in right lane plowing through the snowbanks.

Course, don't suggest that at all, that was stupid teenager driving through stuff that coulda had anything in it that I mighta ht not seeing, and ended up dying.
 
AWD is not the same in every car. For example, in my Pilot, I have AWD but it runs mostly FWD. Just when it needs an extra boost, it'll kick in the rear tires. Or if it senses slipping, etc.

Larger SUVs often have fulltime 4WD which means all four tires are getting power.

My FWD/AWD gets better gas mileage than the same sized 4WD vehicle would. Make sense?

No reason to have 4WD while you're cruising down the freeway - waste of energy.

Now....seperate those from most trucks nowadays that have part-time 4WD which means that you can be driving along in RWD and when you need it, you can put it in 4WD. Some vary as to whether you can be moving or stationary to engage the 4WD, etc.

Which would be best in the snow?

My personal opinion is a vehicle that is primarily RWD with optional 4WD or full-time 4WD/AWD.

2nd would be FWD/AWD

3rd would be RWD

Last would be FWD


But I'm jaded. ;)


Don't get me wrong, for the average driver, Front Wheel Drive is an advantage. But you really do have a lot more control with rear wheel drive. I grew up in snow country...for the longest time believed everyone that told me FWD was better. Then got a RWD and couldn't believe how much better I could control it. True, it's more likely to spin out, but stopping and cornering is tons better.
 
My wife's honda goes almost everywhere in the snow- unless it is deep with fwd.
When things get real bad though, the 4wd truck is much better. But we have mountains and blizzards. For the driving you're talking about, I'm kinda thinking fwd is about right.
That is, if it is true it is better than awd. I'd always thought awd superior to fwd but never owned one.

You don't have to end up in a ditch, you know.

munk
 
Heavy snow is rarely the highway problem in Wisconsin.

Black ice, packed snow, drifting snow on ridgetop roads turn a lot of cars into turtles. Doesn't matter how many wheels you have driving you on ice up here.

Off road is different, as are farmer's roads.

I had a VW Quantuum front wheel drive when I moved up here. Fine mostly, except coming up the hill from the mailbox to the house. Couldn't make it because the weight transfer was to the rear (non-driving wheels.) Some times I'd back up. Often leave the car and walk.

SUVs rarely have the tires that would appropriately utilize their drive wheel capabilities, nor do they often have the drivers that would use them well.

It is worth your while to have a set of real snow treaded tires on separate rims for the winter months. Much cheaper than 4wd or all-wheel drive, and gas mileage is vastly improved as well.


ymmv

Kis
 
I can't answer what Kismet said- I have some objections to it. SUV's should be among the best on the road. Problem is probably the drivers.
but for the little SUV's you're considering, you should know the longer the wheel base the better. Little vehicles swap ends on ice.


munk
 
It is worth your while to have a set of real snow treaded tires on separate rims for the winter months. Much cheaper than 4wd or all-wheel drive, and gas mileage is vastly improved as well.
Click to expand...

I'll second this. My first car was a little Dodge Shadow (FWD), when I lived in NW PA (snow belt). Our house was at the top of a wicked hill with a creek at the bottom of it. There was no way to get speed going because you had to make a sharp turn right at the base of it. I drove that Shadow through two winters with snow tires, and it never got stuck. I even made it up that hill a few times when I was sure it would just slide right back to the bottom. It did better than my parents four wheel drive pickup in the snow, unless it was REALLY deep. Snow tires rule.
 
I think it boils down to personal preference when it comes to picking out a the drive train you want for the winter months. My first car was a '77 Camaro. Needless to say, not the best car for the nasty weather with its rear wheel drive. My next car was an '88 Jeep Wrangler. Awesome little critter for the snow. I loved it. There wasn't too many places it wouldn't go. It really was the "The Little Jeep That Saved Christmas" one year when i was the only person in my family with 4WD when 8-10" of snow fell on us in one storm (remember, i live in southern Indiana. Any snow over 3 or 4" makes us lose our minds on the roads). However, munk is right. Short wheel bases will 180 on ice in a heartbeat. i had some moron pull out in front of me on a slick road and just sat there and spun his tires. I tried to tap my brakes and ended up facing oncoming traffic. Now my winter weather truck is a '79 Jeep Cherokee Chief. Quadra Trac 4WD so it stays in rear wheel drive until it needs the extra traction. 360 V8 and built like a tank. Gas consumption is horrible, but all i need it for is to get around town when the weather gets nasty.
Jake
 
I lived at the bottom of a hill in Winston-Salem, a few years ago. With rear wheel drive, I had to keep two bags of sand over the axle in the trunk in the winter. There were days when I couldn't get up the hill, -- and it was up the hill, down the hill (backwards) and up the hill - and down the hill....FWD was much better.
It is pretty flat in central Illinois, so hills aren't the problem. Right now - the question is whether it is worth it to get part-time AWD. If gas prices keep going up, I'll be interested in saving money on gas.
I think that we haven't seen the end of gas prices going up.
Thanks for the advice.
But I am still a bit undecided.
 
My wife has a CRV. I've heard that it's basically the Civic platform. It gets worse gas mileage than the Civic, probably in the low 20's, but my gut feeling is that it's more the larger profile for wind resistance than anything else. It does great in snow, but I'm not sure if I can really tell the difference between it and small, light, FWD cars I've driven. My experience has been that small, lightweight FWD cars (Civic, Corolla, etc.) can be outstanding in snow. Of course, when the snow reaches your bumper, you're done. With a larger, heavier car, you've got more momentum to contend with.

It's very important to remember that AWD does NOT help with braking and cornering! Failures with braking and handling are what put people INTO the ditch. Theoretically, the 4WD will help you get back out, but it doesn't always do it.
 
Check out the Subaru Outback. It's really a heckuva car with a great AWD system.....perhaps second only to QuadriTrac. I almost bought one, but I couldn't fit 3 car seats across the back....:rolleyes: :footinmou
 
i think you're spot on with the Outback, Dan. I'm looking into one of those or the Forester for my gal in the next year or so. Her job as a county school psychologist will have her all over the county on a daily basis. Subaru's seem to have pretty good safety ratings and 4WD. I want her to have a safe, but fun to drive car with plenty of room for a camping trip or at least enough space for a car seat (not 3...I hope;))should the stork decide to visit;) 220 HP V6 sounds like a good compromise between power and MPG...especially if the county is picking up her gas tab;)

Jake
 
How well do Surarus hold up as miles go up? I knew a few people - years ago - who had to get rid of their Subarus as they aged. They were like American cars - the repair bills mounted, but the cars were not all that old.
One fellow had 3000 in repairs, but the car had perhaps 120K on it.
These were older models. How are the newer Subarus?
 
A subaru is a subaru. Though the newer models are ten times better than even the mid-nineties models....

They're not going to have the repair record of Toyota/Honda. But I do know that Subaru has invested its best technology/efforts/marketing/everything into the outback and has done it for years.

I read an independant test that rated it better overall than the forrester - which is really just a grocery-getter.

So, what's it mean? You'll be getting the very best that Subaru can make.

I've read good owner reports on the Outback from 2002 forward.....

Take a look around on the net....try consumerreports.org...they might have something. Also, check all the generic car mags.....there are some reviews online, I'm sure of it.

I got one as a rental back in 2002 when my Isuzu was having the master cylinder replaced. Loved it.
 
FWIW my aunt has had two Outback's in the last five years or so and loved them both. Myself, I like the WRX Sti :D. Not for the reliablity or the gas mileage, but for the turbo.
 
Subaru Forresters are great snow cars. My ex-wife had a 2001 version. Never had any problems in the snow and ice here in Colorado. She put over 150k miles on it, and the only thing that ever needed to be fixed was the brakelight bulbs. She traded it in for a 2004 VW Golf diesel. Now when it snows she has to park at the base of the driveway. But she's getting 43 mpg!
 
We have a 2002 Camaro Z28 putting down 322 rwhp and we drive it year round here in Colorado in the snow. It can get a little squrley if you give it to much gas but it has enough torque to get it's self moving with out giving it gas. It does fine in the snow and goes just about anywhere. It is RWD. Just drive smart and you will be fine.
 
Anyone test drive a Honda lawnmower in the snow? :confused:

I reckon that fresh snow as long as it's not super deep is fairly easy to drive in. The dangerous stuff happens when it gets packed down, melts a little and freezes again.

People with four wheel drive become mere mortals when they hit a patch of ice while trying to stop. I'll probably take the bus if it snows this year. Too many hills to die on at the new location of my workplace. The boss refuses to buy a company helicopter. I told him it would be fun to rappel to work in the morning. :rolleyes:
 
I know what you mean, Bruise. The area that i'm looking to buy a house in is my old stomping ground as a kid. Its a nice rural area on a curvy winding country road. I'm not so scared of the good ol' boys in their jacked up trucks because i know they know that road as well as i do...and its limitations (used to be an annual tradition for my mother to slide off the road into one of the monster ditches at least once a winter). What really scares me is the growing suburbs in the area. Instead of luke duke going 50 mph with hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel, i have multi-tasking soccer mom screaming at the kids, talking on the cell and not paying attention the the 90 degree curve 40 yard up as she goes mach 5 in her 17 ton Busurban. I can only imagine what its like in the winter when roads thaw in some spots, but stay slick in others. I feel like i should just take the company dumptruck home with me each night. Then at least i'd stand a chance against the 'burbanites.

Jake
 
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