OT: Bob Dole

Mr.BadExample

Mr.BadExample

Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
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I met Bob Dole today at a book signing. He came out with a memoir of his WW2 experiences, and by chance I was in downtown Manhattan this week for work training. I saw that he was doing a book signing today and camped out at the Borders bookstore after lunch. Politics aside, he's a man I respect and he was very polite, friendly, and jocular. It was an honor to shake his (left) hand.

bobdole-and-me.jpg
 
He is a far better man than his Presidential bid failure indicates. Reporters used to like him because he was funny.


I like Bob Dole.


munk
 
When I first saw that pic load I thougt Mr.Dole was standing up :eek: Then I saw the chair behind him :D I thought Mr.Bad Example was related to Hagrid from Harry Potter novels!
 
I never agreed politically most of the time with Dole, but he's a virtual George Mc Govern compared to the Neocons.

On a personal level I think he comes off as a real nice guy, funny as hell and I think his political beliefs are based on a genuine love of the country and his former constituency, rather than greed or dogmatisim despite the facts like so many. Good guy.

I thought next to Kerry he ran one of the WORST campaigns of my voting career. He just kept calling Clinton a liberal, which he was not, and he came off as kind of mean spirited and angry which to me seems to be the opposite of what he really is. Pretty cool you got to meet him. You were shaking hands with history!
 
He just kept calling Clinton a liberal, which he was not, >>>>>>>>
Hollow




History will be satisfied calling Mr Clinton a liberal.


munk
 
munk said:
He just kept calling Clinton a liberal, which he was not, >>>>>>>>
Hollow




History will be satisfied calling Mr Clinton a liberal.


munk
Click to expand...


You think?

Passed free trade act ( GOP issue)
Passed welfare reform(GOP issue)
Bombed Afghanistan, sent troops to Kosovo, bombed Iraq.
Cut govt' jobs (GOP issue)
Cut farm subsidies (not a GOP issue but not a dem one either)
Cut the deficit (GOP issue for sure)
Cut the national debt (GOP issue)
Put more police on the street crime rate fell(GOP issue)
Abortion rate fell during his presidency (gop issue)

About the only things I could construe as liberal:
Gays in the military (didn't pass)
Expanded healthcare( didn't pass)

Expanded tax breaks for low income wage earners
Signed family medical leave act
Raised min wage
Brady and AWB.
Americorps
Created more wilderness (but is this a Liberal issue? Reagan and Roosevelt signed lots of wilderness into being)
Proposed stricter standards on mercury emissions (was reversed by Bush admin)
Proposed stricter standards for arsenic and lead in drinking water( reversed by Bush)

With the exception of gays in the military and the gun control stuff I'd say that most of the rest was in line with the old time Democrats and moderate republicans rather than extremely liberal.

On the other hand if "liberal means anybody who passes anything that helps low wage earners or middle income folks,or protects the public health over the objections of the business community, then YES he was liberal.
 
Hollow, it is not particularly a debatable issue. The only folks who do not see Bill Clinton as a liberal are the most radical on the Left; and he did disapoint them.

Both mainstream politics and modern historians place Clinton as a Liberal. Whether or not you agree, or think this a mistake, is not germane to how History will define him.

We see Hillary trolling Right; does that make her a conservative? No. Nor does it make her mainstream. She is hoping it makes her electable.



munk
 
That whole "nationalizing health care without bothering to check with the voters first" thing was kind of a big deal...

Clinton ran as a moderate, attempted to rule as an extreme liberal, and eventually just had to go back to what he knew best, which was basically just boozing and whoring.

There were some pretty good abuses of power, though.
 
Dave K said:
That whole "nationalizing health care without bothering to check with the voters first" thing was kind of a big deal...

Clinton ran as a moderate, attempted to rule as an extreme liberal, and eventually just had to go back to what he knew best, which was basically just boozing and whoring.

There were some pretty good abuses of power, though.
Click to expand...

Actually Clintons health care plan was not nationalizing health care.

Correct me if I am wrong, but under Clintons plan the people with insurance got to keep their insurance. The people on medicare and medicaid kept that, however there was a third, big goverment managed HMO essentially, that anyone who could not get insurance from either private or medicaid could go under that was based on kind of a sliding scale according to their income.

Also one thing I thought was really good about Clintons plan is there are many people who CAN afford health care, but just choose not to get it. Under Clintons plan these people if they needed health care but hadn't paid into the HMO would have their wages garnished to make up for it and would HAVE to pay into it.

In one way this was bad. Gov't telling people what to do. In another way it was fair. The problem is there are so many uninsured people who when they DO go for health care don't pay anything. Then the cost of these people (who are unable or unwilling to get their own insurance) and their treatment is added to medicare premiums and insurance premiums. Face it nobody is refused treatment.

The US has one of the worst health care systems in the western world. We have terrible stats. Infant mortality, life expectancy , almost by all measurable standards we fall behind other countries who have addressed health care. But hey, we can kick some ass militarily right. ;) ;)
 
The US has one of the worst health care systems in the western world. We have terrible stats>>>>>>>>

Here we go. It's so bad, rich people from foreign nations come here for procedures. The health care that you allude to in other nations has bankrupted many a govenment. And for what? 6 month waiting lists to die. There is little wrong with our own system that A) curtailing free health care to illegals, and B, tort reform would not cure.


Government control of anything is always a mess. Look at what the Pentagon mispends. And you want to have the Goverment manage our health care? What possible gain would we have from that? What past performance of our or any Govt managing anything makes you believe they'll do a good job in Health care?

Pass out slogans- like 'free heath care'. It sounds great until it's actually in practise. I imagine it'll work as good as our welfare system has. That is what Europe has that we do not. An enormous dependent class.

Free health care, free food, free babies, free sex, free rent, free day care, free drugs; sign me up. Wonderful utopian ideals. Problem is making it work. You see, for something to be 'free', it means someone has to pay for it somewhere at some time. Take away individual responsibility and cede it to the Nanny State and watch what happens. They call that Great Britain or France today.

I see there has been no mention of the fact Clinton drove over 50% of FFL holders out of business by regulatory fiat. He signed the Brady Bill. He curtailed import of certain 'weapons'. He initiated 'dont' ask, don't tell' for gays in the military. A Republican 'revolution' balanced the budget; not a liberal President. He merely was savvy enough to go along with Polls and sign. He kept Greenspan and was fortunate enough to reside over a rebust economy he inherited. That does not make him mainstream.

As I said; Clinton disapointed the radical left. They do not consider him liberal.

munk
 
I too voted for Dole. My Dole story is second-hand, but changed my mind about the man.

My ex-girlfriend's sister is a big reporter for USA Today covering the Whitehouse. Seems she mentioned to Dole her nephew was a big fan of Bob's during an interview one day (why a 10 year old would like any political figure is amazing in itself). The nephew lived out California.

Well, when Bob got out to California on the campaign tour, he made the effort to track down the nephew, took him on his plane for the day of campaigning and brought him back home late that night. He gave the kid the first-class treatment. All for a 10 year-old who liked Bob. He didn't get any play out of it in the press... and the reporter was a DEVOUT Democrat... so no favors from her were expected.

He is a good man in my book.

Alan
 
Bob Dole was universally respected as Senate Leader.

He shot from the hip some. Sometimes very funny, often inconvenient. He said recently of Kerry- something like, "How do you get a Purple Heart without even bleeding?"


munk
 
I didn't want this to be a political thread, it was about meeting a well-respected WW2 veteran who happens to be a politician. As for Clinton, he was for big government, but then again so is our current so-called Republican in office. The terms "liberal" and "conservative" have gotten very muddled over the years. Neither party respects the 1st and 4th amendments, one only gives lip service to the 2nd.
 
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