OT: Chasing down NDN heritage

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May 4, 2001
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(Precursory Note: I am not claiming any Cherokee Princesses in my lineage :p ) Uncle Yvsa, et al... What is the best way to pursue info on my wife's NDN ancestry. For many years her family would joke that they were NDN, as every generation one or two of the folks would be dark skinned etc... but when pushed we got nothin'. We were back in Iowa a few years back for funeral and started asking questions of her shirt tail relatives. They broke out their family album and showed us black and white photos of I think it was her Great, Great Grandma. They said that she was Blackfoot by ancestry, and she looked 100%. The rest of the info is sketchy at best. Are there good resources that I can use to find out more info using her grandma's name, etc?

thanks,
stevo
 
Wow.
Ask the Mormons.

I guess you might contact the Blackfoot and ask them too.
They're in Browning MT.


munk
 
Steve I had a full page telling you what was necessary and I guess my computer locked up, crashed or something. Had to reboot and get back online. I'll do it later today now as it's past my bedtime and I didn't get my nap today, yesterday either.:rolleyes: :grumpy: ;)
 
My brothers wife did it. If I talk to him I'll ask. As I remember it was fairly easy and her ancestors were pretty far back there. I can't remember what % age they came up with.

Yvsa,

What % are you? What is the average % you know? Are many 100%
 
Guys, thanks for the help! This is something that my kids really want me to help them pursue. The pictures that we saw of my wife's great, great (maybe even one more great :) ) grandma shows an awful tough looking women. Guess she had to be :grumpy: :mad: Her white husband ran off and left her and the kids to fend for themselves on the farm. I can't imagine being an NDN women with mixed kids got you too many bonus points around the turn of the century.
 
My great grandfather on my mothers side was killed in an industrial accident in the teens or 20's and she raised 3 kids. My grandma on my Dad's side had both parents die of scarlet fever and she traveled and lived in peoples houses and cleaned for her room and board. Things were really rough for people back before there was any such thing as food stamps or AFDC. It's amazing as many people made it as did.
 
My Grandma's Grandma was half Cherokee. I have one photo of her from 1914 give or take a year. She died when my Grandma's Dad was in his early teens. To my knowledge there's no birth or death certificate for her. My Mom's Brother tried to find some info on her in Oklahoma but was told that Youngblood was a common name. I still don't know much about her.

My dad claimed to have some as well (all he ever said was French and Cherokee) but since he bailed when I was a baby and I never met him I don't know how much. He didn't look NDN (I've seen pictures) so I'm guessing not that much.

I have more than a few drunks, lunatics and miscreants in my family tree so I'm not too surprised that info is sometimes scarce. Good luck on that and let us know what you find.

Frank
(French, Cherokee, German, Irish & English, and God knows what else, in unknown quantities)
 
hollowdweller said:
Yvsa,
What % are you? What is the average % you know? Are many 100%
I'm 1/8th Cherokee, enough that I qualify for a Cherokee house if I were enrolled, from my paternal side, grandmother, 1/8th Osage from my maternal side, grandmother, and also possible Creek, don't know how much, from my maternal side, grandfather.
So if I can ever figure out how much Creek there is, if any, I'd be over a quarter. But for all legal purposes I could only claim 1/8th if I ever track down to a roll number as you can only enroll in one tribe.
Something else the US Gubbiment has done to assimilate the ndn people and eventually do away with us.:mad:
Thing is, we know who we are and no one can take that from us.:D

Don't know the average. Not many pure bloods left in the lower 48 and it varies from place to place and tribe to tribe. I'm sure that Alaska and Canada has more pure bloods than other locales.


.
 
I'd be interested in this information as well. My Great Grandmother was at least 1/2 Cherokee or more on my mom's side. On my dad's side I believe my Great Grandmother was pretty close to that as well. I'm a big mutt compiled of a whole bunch of different folks:) Irish, English, German, French, Cherokee.
The NDN in my family is pretty obvious. Before I landed a desk job and stayed pasty white all year long, i used to work outside and get brown as could be. Both my mother and I are somewhat dark complected with high cheekbones. As a matter of fact, years ago my mom was approached by an old Cherokee man at the hospital she worked at. She said he was a really sweet old guy with a big belt buckle and long gray hair in braids waiting to see some sort of doctor. He asked her if she had any Cherokee in her bloodlines. She said yes, she was pretty sure her grandmother was at least 1/2. Then, all of a sudden, the old guy puts his soft wrinkled fingertips to her face and traces her cheekbones. This startled her, but all he did was nod and smile and said, "Yes, it runs deep in your family." Then he went back to his seat and waited quietly.
Just one of the many cool stories she brought home with her from work.

jake
 
Now to answer Steve's question...

BIA = Bureau of Indian Affairs.
CDIB = Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood.
DIB = Degree of Indian Blood.

Steve each tribe sets up its own requirements for being able to enroll as a tribal member.
I support that with all my being although I must admit I don't agree with several tribes limitations.:grumpy:
The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma are the least restrictive with proof to a Cherokee ancestor's roll number being all that is required. I have seen BIA CDIB cards issued to Cherokee members with 1/256th degree of ndn blood or some such number. The Cherokee believe that one drop of blood makes you Cherokee. Don't get a nose bleed, you'll lose it all! ;)

I've known a lot of people that tell me they have an old family member that says they are Blackfoot that are from the south. I don't know where the Blackfoot originated from but since probably the 1700's or so I think they've been a northern tribe. As Munk says,
Munk said:
"I guess you might contact the Blackfoot and ask them too.
They're in Browning MT."
What a lot of people don't know is that the term Blackfoot can also apply to the Freedmen whom were the freed slaves of color freed by the Cherokee and other tribes way back when. The Freedmen are recognized as Cherokee.:)
All I know is the proper way to trace back to Cherokee ancestory of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, but I'm reasonably sure it would apply to most tribes if not all that are open to enrollment.
IIRC the Eastern Cherokee have closed their rolls but if you can prove ancestory you have to be 1/4 CDIB to enroll, if you could.:rolleyes:

To prove lineage takes a lot of time and money and is similar to breeding elephants....:grumpy:
Start with your wife, if she has her birth certificate her parents names will be on it. If she doesn't have it then you need to apply to the state where she was born and obtain it through their Bureau of Vital Statistics or whatever that states office that keeps track of such things is called.
If your wife's parents are still living get their birth cert's if not then get their death cert's and then their birth cert's.
Their parents names and race will be on them.
What you're trying to do is to trace back far enough that you come up with a birth or death cert that has "Indian" listed as the race.
You have to have each family member's death and birth certificate back to the individual that was ndn in order to prove lineage.
(You can save a lot of money by just tracing back the side where the ndn was supposed to be.)

Okay, now you have proven lineage, what to do next?
In a perfect world the birth or death cert will say what kind of ndn, but....:(

If you are so lucky then you can contact that tribe and see if their rolls are open, if so then you can make application, if not then you have documented proof that she is ndn for what that's worth, not much.:(

If you aren't so lucky then the next step is to start tracking census records. It will be much easier to do since you have the birth and death certs and there should be info on them as to where the people lived.
Hopefully as you track the census records you will hopefully at some point come across the one you need that tells what kind of ndn her ancestor was.
Then you can do as above and make application to that tribe if their rolls are open
There is one nice thing that may be too your advantage in this day and age. There's a lot of tribes that are opening their rolls and lowering the DIB that one has too be in order to enroll so that they can enlarge their membership in order to be able to qualify for federal requirements in order to build a casino or such.:D

Another good source of info is of course the Internet. I haven't had much luck but I have a cousin that has found a great deal of info on our family along with pics of old family members that I've heard of but never seen. Also the reason I haven't had much luck is that I haven't persued it for quite a while. More and more people are getting interested in their genealogy and getting online to search it out.
Also the software Family Tree is pretty good and not horribly expensive.:D

Good luck and if you have any questions I haven't answered just ask and I'll try to answer.:cool:
 
My wife's side of the fam has a smattering of ndn, but only trace elements. Seems they look like dark skinned english folks (I always thot that the prominent noses of some english were quite similar to a few ndn tribes...) or at least they tan well. Wife's sis shows the dark skin more than my wife, who has her mother's paler complexion. makes up for it w/freckles...

No need 4 me to track that, we're alredy mongrel-licious enuf at me household, with German, Irish, English, , Slvaonic (mebbe Polish?) Dutch ancestry on my side alone!
 
harryarcher said:
What does the acronym/abbreviation "EDC" stand for?
Not sure where you saw it but generally EDC stands for Every Day Carry.
 
Yvsa, thanx for the detailed info! I don't know if my wife wants to apply or just track things down because :) This gives me some good stuff to follow. We are also trying to find info on her dad, who had multiple birth certs, and three different listed names on early childhood documents. WTF? I can see that i will have to be a sleuth to get anywhere. I will see if my teenage boys can do some of the leg work for me.
 
Well, Yvsa has pretty much summed it all up. I've got a little to add. My mother is over half Tsalagi (Cherokee). I'm not a big fan of govt. cards, and never have been.

One old Tsalagi Shaman told me a story once that he told to another Cherokee, "Now that you have your card, tell me something.. what are you going to do when you go to the Happy Hunting Ground and they let you in. All those millions of Indians there and you have this stamp on your head with a federal ID number?"

If you are interested in geneology, enrollment, etc, that's all good.
I find that the best way is to talk to your family, older members, and see who remembers what.

In the Tennesse mountains, were my family was from, for up to and including my grandmother's generation, it was not cool to be NDN. In fact, she told me that they were told as children never to discuss it, since, according to her in that time, Indian people were not understood (kinder and more gentler version that the one that she told me), and ran the risk of being hurt or shot.
Another full Tsalagi from the same area told me that when he grew up (a generation later) that he thought that the only way people knew how to relate to Indians was through John Wayne movies. not a happy picture.
Many of my elders dressed as whites, and wrapped their hair in scarves.
The reason that I'm sharing this isn't to get anyone worked up. It's just history lesson that leads to a point closer to what you are looking for.
A lot of Indians, like my family in Tennessee, did NOT want to be on the old Cherokee rolls. They thought it was a government scheme to keep up with and potentially kill us off. These roles were began when the stories of the Trail of Tears were still being carried by people not to far removed from the actual event. (I keep the stories in my family) So, don't expect everything to be on neat government or even tribal records. Do try to learn as much as you can from the elders in your family, even ones that you might not think know anything about it.

More importantly, if you are interested, try to learn about the culture and the Old Ways. At one time, every race wore buckskins. The old ways were shamanic for all peoples at one point in history.

Peace,

David

(edited for my bad spelling)
 
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