OT: Chemistry Hazard Question - Please Help

ddean · Nov 12, 2004

I'm concerned it may be toxic or explosive.

"Better safe than sorry."

Most got poured down the drain,
but some remains in the iron/steel filings & plastic pan used.

Tried web searches but no answer found.

I got an unexpected product formed from 91% isopropyl alcohol.
It is yellow/amber.
Viscous/oily.
[after ~ 2-hr drying - Residue of 'oil' coats the plastic of the pan--
looks shiny/oily]
Heavier than the alcohol.
Formed somewhat quickly, but not instantly.
High volume of the isopropynol changed to this.
Resulted from contact with iron powder.
May have contacted -minute- traces of Formula 409 spray cleaner.
Ditto Sodium Bicarbonate.

I was cleaning some iron filings I had swept up
from under my grinder. (for kid's magnet play)

After many rinsings with tap-water
I decided it would dry better/faster
if I grabbed the little remaining water with isopropyl.
This thick iron-stain colored liquid/oil formed.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean'

-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D

faramir · Nov 12, 2004

What did you dip your iron (where those filings come from) in before cleaning it up ? Whatever it was it probably dissolved in your iso-propanol, the alcohol evaporated away to and extent and you're left with whatever you staretd up with in the first place. I sincerely doubt it coudl be anything harmful (toxic or explosive), no more than the mysterious filth you started up with was. You did get clean iron filings though

Sodium Bicarbonate doesn't react with alcohol, it (Na2CO3) only dissolves in it (in water). I dont know what that SPray thing you mentioned is though.

Drdan · Nov 12, 2004

Toxic, not explosive! Some of the solutes of the various substances used were put into suspension by the alcohol and water solution. The alcohol dried off rapidly leaving the mixture of solutes... I would assume that it would redden in time if kept moist.

spiraltwista · Nov 12, 2004

What you been up to Dean?

These people might be able to give you some advice!

link for cleanup!

I would guess its spay cleaner , alcohol reaction.

Expect it wouldnt go bang without a detonater even if a bit livly.

{no knowledge on my part!}

Drain system is bad for chemical disposal, rumour has it deep land fill is better. {expensive toxic disposal firms would be theoreticaly better.}

Spiral

ddean · Nov 12, 2004

faramir said:
What did you dip your iron (where those filings come from) in before cleaning it up ?

Whatever it was it probably dissolved in your iso-propanol, the alcohol evaporated away to and extent and you're left with whatever you staretd up with in the first place.

I sincerely doubt it coudl be anything harmful (toxic or explosive), no more than the mysterious filth you started up with was. You did get clean iron filings though

Sodium Bicarbonate doesn't react with alcohol, it (Na2CO3) only dissolves in it (in water). I dont know what that SPray thing you mentioned is though.

I guess I wasn't complete in my description.
I had washed the filings in running water about 6 times
(in a deep enough tub with a magnet collecting any iron that tried to run off)
before doing -anything- else.
After those rinses I sprayed a little counter-cleaner in for good measure.
Agitated then another running rinse.
A little baking soda to prevent rust while drying.
Changed my mind, and rinsed soda out in running water again.
Poured in about a cup of alcohol.
About 10 sec later I started to notice yellow in tub.
Soon realized it was increasing & seperating into a layer on the bottom.
Strange...........
Poured it off.
Added more alcohol (91%) & the reaction occurred again.
Volume of thick yellow increased........!!!
Very strange......
I better find out what's happening....................!

These are two 'ordinary' materials ! ? !

The spray & soda I mentioned because they were variables.

The filings were very clean before I added the isopropanol.
(a trace of oil maybe remaining ?, but not several fluid ounces worth!)
The isopropanol (about half of it when I started to dump it)
-changed- to the thicker substance.
Out of a cup of the alcohol added to about an ounce or less of steel filings,
I got about half a cup of the thicker yellow-brown
& the total volume didn't change perceptibly.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean'

-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D

Yvsa · Nov 12, 2004

Calling Firkin, Calling Firkin, Calling Firkin.

Come to think about it Firkin hasn't been around for a while has he?

Anybody had any contact with him?

alasome · Nov 12, 2004

Hmmm, wish I had a clue (I should; but?). Anyway; don't see how there could have been enough, but maybe the filings catalized some kind of reaction with the 409. I don't think there should have been enough 409 from the description; but? Anyway if you're interested here's the MSDS for 409 cleaner http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~jsmith/MSDS/FORMULA 409 CLEANER.htm . Sounds kind of nasty to me. Wish I could give more definte information, I do know you can get some strange reactions sometimes. Kind of embarressing; I've only worked as a chemist for over 23 years.

Anthony Lasome

ddean · Nov 13, 2004

alasome said:
here's the MSDS for 409 cleaner ......... Sounds kind of nasty to me.

No kidding!

Recently picked up some 'rust stain remover'
& found the active ingredient was Hydroflouric Acid.
Talk about some vile stuff!

--------------------
My 'experiment':
After several hours;
Filled the tub with water to see if the layer of 'oil'
would dissolve or lift off the tub & filings.
Neither.
Still wipes up easily with a paper towel.
It's holding onto the filings pretty securely;
More like grease than oil in consistancy--
indirect running water doesn't move the thinnest or the thickest piles.
If I were energetic I would find a local biochem prof or student
to give it a shakedown in Instrumental Analysis.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean'

-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D

faramir · Nov 13, 2004

My mom works in chem lab when one of the routine analyses has something to do with deteting oil in water. What looks like perfectly fine water (runs like water, is colorless) becomes a goo that you describe once hexane or one of the lower alcohols (like propanol) is added. This is probably what you ended up with, and that Spray thingy might have helped some water get absorbed into that goo. The baking soda you added also "helps" making this goo because of Na (Sodium) ions, she says.

The stuff you ended up with is no more toxic than any of the ingredients you started up with (old oil and some various alcohols, while some of the stuff (from that spray) simply evaporated. It is no more explosive either (as in: it is not explosive once the highly flammable ingredients of that spray of yours which evaporated away aren't present in fuel-air mixture around your container anymore).

Next time you could simply use washing detergent (the purpose of which is to remove oil) and won't end up with that yucky thing

Kismet · Nov 13, 2004

farimir?

Thank you very much for the report from your mom. That was most helpful.

Now, Dean????

WHAT have WE learned? hmmmmmmm?

tap tap tap

Bill Martino · Nov 13, 2004

WHAT have WE learned?

That everything is poison?

ddean · Nov 13, 2004

faramir said:
What looks like perfectly fine water (runs like water, is colorless) becomes a goo that you describe once hexane or one of the lower alcohols (like propanol) is added.

Much thanks !

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean'

-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D

ddean · Nov 13, 2004

Kismet said:
Now, Dean????

WHAT have WE learned? hmmmmmmm

Mmmmmmm...............

That the world is a more interesting place every day?

And fasting instead of eating is becoming more attractive.

& stay away from alcohols?

BTW,
Ich.

Can you imagine such similar scenario happening in one's digestive system?
.........

Ideopathic diarhea &/or digestive upset.
Hmmmmmm................

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean'

-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D