OT: Interesting read, so far....

Just finished chapter 4, so far, so good. Author has some cultural biases that bothered me a bit, but he's honest and not advocating attitudes.

Some information he had about Sequoia National Park was news to me.

Ysva? Is this accurate?

"The park was established in 1908, and was named after Sequoyah, a part Cherokee, and creator of the Cherokee Indian alphabet. Sequoya was born around 1765 and was the son of Nathaniel Gist a British trader and a Cherokee mother. He was raised by his mother in the Tennessee country and never learnt to speak, read or write English. He was however, adept as an artist and also as a warrior, serving with the US Army in the Creek War in 1813-14.
Sequoyah was convinced that the key to the white people’s superior power was written language, which enabled them to accumulate and pass on more knowledge than was possible for a people whose mode of communication was dependent on memory and word of mouth.
To this end, around about 1809, he began working on a system of writing for the Cherokees, believing that the increased knowledge would help them maintain their independence from the whites. He first experimented with pictographs, and then with various symbols that represented the syllables of the spoken Cherokee language.
Twelve years later by 1821, he had finally created a system of 86 symbols, representing all the syllables of the Cherokee language.
He then went on to convince his people of the usefulness of his written language by transmitting messages between the Cherokees of Arkansas (with whom lived) and those of the east, and by teaching his daughter and other young people of the tribe to write.
The system had been uncomplicated and made for easy learning, and before long Cherokees were publishing books and newspapers in their own language.
Good on him! "

There's so much to learn.

Kis
 
Message passing...

Reminds me of this time that my kindred (extended family-like grouping of heathens) showed up at the Harvest Moon Fest in the small town of Sheridan, IN. One of the attractions we had was a thing I called "Your name in runes," (which was inspired by a trip I made as a youth to a metro museum where a lady did kid's names inn heiroglyphics). I took it a step further by printing all of the runes and their letter equivalents on the bottom half of the sheet, and I would write their name for them at the top in a nice knotwork-bordered frame. For the rest of the year, all the kids at Sheridan's schools were passing notes in school that were undecipherable to teachers, who didn't have the 'runic decoder sheet' that all the students had! We had a good chuckle over that. We made history and language fun fer an instant in time, for a select buncha kids.

Come ta think of it, the 'your name in runes' experiment was kinda continued on about 8 HI seax blades I etched...(heee! Genuine HI knife content! Huzzah!)

And Pen's in Ogham was a learning exp for me with yet another code (albeit suited primarily for the gaelic tongue, not english).

If ya ain't careful in this world, you can accidentally learn stuff...:D

Keith
 
Another exerpt:

"After a quick meal, too tired to clean out the pot, I crashed into the damp warmth of my sleeping bag and lay there savouring the lack of mobility, the crossing of another pass, and contemplating my journey so far.
The amazing thing about this adventure was the contrasts.
From deserts, hills and heat, to mountains, snow and chill.
From light-headed euphoria, to downhearted despondency.
From easy as a stroll in the park, to a breathless gut-busting struggle.
From always feeling hungry, to overflowing with hashbrowns and pancakes!

Much later, some people would look at me incredulously when they heard about the walk, and say something like, “Whatever did you want to do that for?!”
After a while, I wouldn’t even try to explain. The fact that they had to ask that question meant that they would never be able to understand.
I knew why.
Every day was a physical and mental challenge, but every day I had a goal and a sense of achievement.
Every day was spent in country where it felt like it meant something to be alive.
Every day the vastness and remoteness of my surroundings brought home my insignificance and made me realise that I had no more right to life than a marmot, an ant or a rattlesnake.
Every day reinforced the realisation that it was the basic things that really mattered.
Every day taught me to appreciate and be thankful for small things.
At the end of every day I was content and happy!
And if that wasn’t enough, to top it off, I’d been told that I wouldn’t be able to do it.
So for what they are worth, those are just seven reasons why I , “wanted to do that.”

Kis
 
Kismet said:
Ysva? Is this accurate?

"The park was established in 1908, and was named after Sequoyah, a part Cherokee, and creator of the Cherokee Indian alphabet. Sequoya was born around 1765 and was the son of Nathaniel Gist a British trader and a Cherokee mother. He was raised by his mother in the Tennessee country and never learnt to speak, read or write English.

Kis
Click to expand...
Yup. But he convinced the Cherokee by writing something down and getting his daughter, I think it was, to read it.
Some people say the trader's name was Guess instead of Gist.
The Cherokee Alphabet isn't really an alphabet but a syllabary which consists of, I think, 84 characters.
Some characters were dropped a while back as being similar and not needed. I'm thinking there was originally 86 characters.
Each character represents a sound in the Cherokee Language and by putting the charaters together words are created. Pure magic to this day.:D
Dodadagohvi or more accurately Dodanagohvi. The first word is "We'll see each other again" for one person. The second word is the same meaning but for two people or more. Makes Cherokee very difficult to learn.:grumpy: :rolleyes:
Real ndns never say goodbye.;)
 
Here's some more on Sequoyah.. the syllabary was first carved out on piece of Sacred Pipestone, a stone that has a rich important history to the Cherokee. It's a rare form of steatite, has mineral fuzations. Sequoyah was also one heck of a silversmith! He was very adept at metalwork and stonecarving. His family, and many others, vowed not to touch yellow gold again, after the Trail of Tears. Before the Europeans, it wasn't uncommon to find gold used in the metalwork. To this day, his descendants will not touch it.

Pictographs have a long history with the tribe. There are still "track rocks" in North Georgia and other places that existed before the Cherokee. Fortunately, their transalations haven't been lost yet. Unfortunately, some ******** have a habit of removing the stones and placing them in museums or university research centers (or just steal them), having no idea that their stories are usually tied to the geographic landscape, and don't always make much sense without understanding the Earth around them.

The newspaper was called the Phoenix. It did a lot to help the Cherokee communicate and boost morale. I don't remember how long it ran. There's still some old copies at the Res in NC. Or used to be anyway.
 
Ben Arown-Awile said:
Real Indians do say "Goodbye".
Real ndns say "Gdb" and sometimes "Gdby".
Click to expand...
Glad to see you are such an authority on me and my people Ben Around Way Too Long.:rolleyes:
Maybe I should rephrase it and say that Real Traditional ndns don't say goodbye. You are full of it sir.:p
 
Lion's Roar said:
He was very adept at metalwork and stonecarving. His family, and many others, vowed not to touch yellow gold again, after the Trail of Tears. Before the Europeans, it wasn't uncommon to find gold used in the metalwork. To this day, his descendants will not touch it.
Click to expand...
Dawi, et al: My dear wife and I both wear silver wedding bands in the form of braided rope.
My "sis" and her husband that I married a little while back had beautiful silver bands made with Zuni like inlay in several colors and meaningful stones for them.
I've alwyas preffered silver over gold. I have a couple of gold rings that were made for me and given as gifts that I never wear but sentiments and the stones in them have meaning for me so I keep them.
 
Why exactly did Sequoyah specifically vow not to work with gold as opposed to any other precious metal?
 
Getting a bit heated there toward the last, but what the heck as long as we make use of the opportunity to learn more about each other and ourselves.
 
Dave K.

It was gold, particularly yellow gold, that triggered the Trail of Tears around 1833-1836. [Yvsa, I know I'm supposed to know my dates, but those are ballpark]. When gold was discovered in Dahlonega, GA, the tragedy began.
FYI- up until that point, the mountain people and NDNs generally got along alright. Contrary to popular belief. It was rumoured that the Vice President of the US at that time, started the whole mess when gold was found.

Yvsa, I lived in, what was probably the last Cherokee chieftan [Cherokee log cabin] in Dahlonega. It was 180 years old, and was later torn down for "progress". Those old spirits were still around in that old cabin. You couldn't clean it out with a field full of sage and sweetgrass. It was real strange when, years later, I met my wife and moved to NY to be with her.
She worked at the Federal Reserve and managed to get me a private tour.
I didn't have any words when, in the middle of this huge metropolis, on a floor of the Fed, there was one of the original gold Dahlonega coins on the wall. Knowing where I came from, that I had been to the land of the ancients where it began. It was a strange feeling. All I could do was say nothing.
They wouldn't have understood if I did, and they weren't the ones responsible now.
 
A fascinating subject, for sure. And one I have personal experience with having assembled small dictionaries for 2 mayan dialects a few years back. I didn't "discover" the language and its grammer, though. That would certainly be neat.

Thanks, Kis!
 
Speaking of Mayans... it has been said that the Cherokee and the Mayans had the same spiritual practices up until the time that the Aztecs came into the picture.

Sorry if I'm wearing y'all out with NDN history.
 
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