OT khukuri-markings expert: Crescent - Royal Nepal Arsenal or Italian Quality??!!

beoram

beoram

Joined
Nov 27, 2001
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In reference to the khukuri I've posted on the thread 1800s Nepal Royal Arsenal Dvi-Chirra kukri [photos]--

On a previous thread, we were discussing 'crescent' markings on khukuri blades. N2S and JP informed us that they are marking of Royal Nepal Arsenal(s):

Originally posted by John Powell
This crescent can be found on many different arsenals throughout Nepal in the 19th and late 18th century. Any arsenal that was authorized to make weapons for the military and constabulary had to be approved by the court, therefore they all had the title "Royal". The different arsenal variations are dots, circles, sometimes nothing and a repeat of the crescent itself. It is still theory, but a repeat of the mark further down the blade or repeated on the obverse may indicate quality or a blade of ranking.

This also doesn't mean a lot of kukris weren't being banged out in small forges all over the place. Many of these kamis wanted to put their mark on the blade so you find variations that can't be traced to a particular arsenal.

The mark itself comes from a symbol of a crescent moon that was given by one of the Nepalese kings (gotta look up which one)to his closest generals and trusted court members. They were known as a group named the "Band of the Moon.
Click to expand...


this was in reference to markings like this:
k-shade1.jpg
and others which were eaten by Photopoint :mad: (a subsidiary of Enron).

I obtained a (reputedly) 19th century khukuri, with horn handle, nice silver fittings, &c. which has the following marks (on both sides of the blade near the handle):
19RA-14.jpg

(you probably need to 'scroll' right to see them)

****

However, ruel remarked that he had seen similar 'double crescent with dots' markings as 'Italian proof' marks (:eek: :confused: ):

Originally posted by ruel
The double crescent with three dots at each end is supposed to be an Italian proof mark, and shows up on alot of Maratha swords with imported blades. Not surprisingly, it was also faked and put on local blades, like this little guy of mine:

fullbukhara.jpg


You can just barely see the stamp in the photo.

After discussing it on the Ethnographic Edged Weapons Forum, we came to the conclusion that it was made in Sindh and exported to Bukhara around the time the Russians conquered Bukhara -- nothing to do with Italy!
Click to expand...

(the thread on the Ethnographic Edged Weapons Forum referred to is: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000277.html )

SO.....the 10,000 rupee question is:

what are these markings??? the 'double' crescent with dots and arrows as shown above??? :confused: :(

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this.

Cheers all, B.
 
The crescent is a very common mark through out northern Africa, the mideast, IndoPersia and even up into the Caucauss'.

In the case of the Nepalese pieces the information supplied applies.

Ruel,
that is some wild looking sword. Very cool.

Lost Horizon? Bill, weren't you the stunt double for William Coleman in the movie?
 
Originally posted by John Powell
The crescent is a very common mark through out northern Africa, the mideast, IndoPersia and even up into the Caucauss'.
Click to expand...

Right, obviously the crescent moon is a common symbol in the middle-east....

Originally posted by John Powell
In the case of the Nepalese pieces the information supplied applies.
Click to expand...

:confused: :confused: Which information? :eek: The original 'royal-nepal-arsenals' info or ruel's 'Italian-quality' info?

I'm guessing you mean the first one (that it's a symbol of one of the 'Royal' Nepal Arsenals), right?

Any ideas on the arrow? Is that just an identifying mark for a particular arsenal? I was beginning to wonder about its association with a 'broad arrow'....Gurkhas were being recruited in the 19th c. after all.

Originally posted by Bill Martino
Ever read Lost Horizon?
Click to expand...

sounds vaguely familiar--what's it about? there's a film of it too?

thanks again for the info all, Ben.
 
I have no doubt that your khukuri is not a khukuri at all...it is an early version of the Ducati Mega Mondo PIzza Cutter so famous in Italy today. Yours was probably made by the legendary del Tincan brothers of Sardinia.
Of course, being nineteeth production, it is not motorized. Retro-fitting a suitable motor is a real bear.
Tell you what, I'll swap you a Lion head "kothimira" and a "Gen-u-wine Regimental Gurka headhunter ceremonial sword" for it. Because I like you, I might throw in a handful or two of antique Nepalese rust! ;)

--Mike L.

PS: Do we have a deal?
 
Bill, I had a senior moment there, but I thought you were a stunt double for Conrad Hilton and developed the first Coleman lantern...
 
Sounds like a real deal, Mike.

Beo, Lost Horizon is a must read. Check the library. Ever hear of Shangri La? That's the setting for the novel.
 
thanks Mike, I'll think about it.

;) ;) ;)

Uncle Bill - you know the reason why Lost Horizon sounded familiar to me is because someone gave it me recently as a gift and it was sitting on the top of a stack of books near the computer!!!! :eek:, as I realised after I finished asking about it :rolleyes: That must be significant......pushed to the top of my reading list.

cheers, B.
 
It's a hauntingly beautiful story and I'll be quite surprised if you don't enjoy it immensely. I read it in high school and reread it the last time about two years ago and several times in between.
 
I am studying at the JP School of Khukuritology, and robbing newbies out of good khuks is part of my final exam.
Then, to get my degree, I have to turn them all over to JP.

;) ;)

--Mike L. Future Master of Khukuritology
 
Then it is apparent, from photos of JP's...err..collection, that he's an exceptionally good professor ;p
 
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