OT (kinda), but help me Sarge, you're my only hope!!!

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Mar 28, 2002
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Hey Sarge,

I've been *REALLY* inspired (okay, a bit jealous, but who hasn't?) by your ability to make "Reti"-style knives, so much so that I've decided that I *NEED* to try doing them myself, maybe make a little cash to supplement my meagre student allowence...

So here's my question:

What files do you use? What brand? Can I use any old cheap file? Please help!!!!!!
 
Good question(s) Hibuke:D

Here's the deal, I used to stick exclusively to U.S. made files like Nicholson or Simond's, thinking, erroneously, that there'd be a big difference in quality over inexpensive imports. I've since used plenty files from India and China, with consistently good results. In fact, if I don't have time to go hunt for used files, and find myself purchasing a new file to make a blade from, I'm more than happy buying the ones from India (Sunflower files, sold by Ace Hardware under the euphimistic trade name "Vermont American"). They're all made from fine grained, high carbon, tool steel, or else they'd be a poor material to make a file from.

In picking out a file, new or used, look for the finest toothed file you can find (flat smooth or mill bastard). Coarser teeth require cutting into the metal deeper to produce, and you'll wind up doing significantly more stock removal to get your blade blank smooth (read that wasted time, wasted material, thinner finished blade).

Most important thing to remember, if you don't have access to sophisticated heat treating equipment, is to preserve the hardness of the blade by grinding slow and dipping in the water bucket often. Don't use gloves, pliers, or anything else but your hands to hold the blade when grinding. If you pay attention, your finger tips will tell you the blade's getting hot long before you burn the temper from it (indicated by localized discoloration at the hot spot). The exception is when working in the area of the edge/point. Here the metal is thin enough to develop excessive heat quicker than you have the ability to detect it. Slow, careful, and very light pressure is the key here.

Hope I've been helpful:)

Sarge
 
Sarge's advice is dead on in my experience.

Just beware that once you start on this road, there's no turning back. You'll be browsing ebay for deals on Burl, ordering steels in batches of 10-20 feet at a time, going through gallons of epoxy(or acragalss), and trying to figure out what to do with piles of dull belts before you know it. :)
 
To help ya out, There are only three answers I've heard to last one that I like. One maker makes his own micarta from them(though I'd hate to see what kind of work you have to do to cut or grind it), one burns them in winter in a heater in his shop. And most of us just throw them away.

There, now you have a head start. ;)
 
Translation? "Victory is mine!!!

Originally posted by Sylvrfalcn
Good question(s) Hibuke:D

Here's the deal, I used to stick exclusively to U.S. made files like Nicholson or Simond's, thinking, erroneously, that there'd be a big difference in quality over inexpensive imports. I've since used plenty files from India and China, with consistently good results. In fact, if I don't have time to go hunt for used files, and find myself purchasing a new file to make a blade from, I'm more than happy buying the ones from India (Sunflower files, sold by Ace Hardware under the euphimistic trade name "Vermont American"). They're all made from fine grained, high carbon, tool steel, or else they'd be a poor material to make a file from.


Chinese and Indian files. That sounds exactly like what's been sold back in Singapore, where my parents live. My dad said he'd get me a few files to try out, but he sounded really skeptical. Can you name any other brands of "el-cheapo Chinese or Indian files"? That may make my dad's search a little bit easier.

Originally posted by Sylvrfalcn


In picking out a file, new or used, look for the finest toothed file you can find (flat smooth or mill bastard). Coarser teeth require cutting into the metal deeper to produce, and you'll wind up doing significantly more stock removal to get your blade blank smooth (read that wasted time, wasted material, thinner finished blade).

*SNIPPING*


I thought so! Okie, lemme get this straight then. So I'll be getting a bunch of "el-cheapo Chines or Indian-made" flat smooth or mill bastard files to start off, right?

And as for heat treating, I'm gonna get it professionally done at a commercial heat-treaters, as I don't have any grinders of any sort, save for my own two hands and alot of time, abrasives and patience! I'm planning on getting them annealled first, then I'll grind them down, then send them back for heat treatment. All up? Around $20 for both...

How does that sound?
 
Hibuke, if you're going to go the annealing-rehardening/heat treating route don't get all them files annealed. Working with annealed steel, once you get it roughly ground to shape, you can use one of 'em to draw file the blade's flats and bevels to make 'em true and smooth. Finish the blade to 95% before the heat treating, understanding the hardening and tempering processes are going to generate some surface "scale" that's going to have to be polished off to bring the blade back bright and shiny.

Sarge
 
Watch out for "case-hardened" files - no good for knifemaking.

Your best bet is to get a few of the oldest, nastiest looking files you can find in the deepest box of tools at the flea market. Chances are everybody has passed them up because they are now dull - which means less work for you. ;)

Most rust on old tools is shallow and if you're making a knife, you will definitely be going deeper.

Plus the "before" and "after" effect is oustanding. :)


Be sure to post pics!

Dan
 
I've encountered case hardened files only very, very, rarely. It's my understanding that case hardening is actually more costly and time consuming than standard heat treatment. That would preclude running into 'em if ya stick with the cheap files. Even if you do, it should'nt be a problem if you're going to fully anneal the file before working on it.

Sarge
 
...With the professional heat treater is, well, very professional and uses the latest Vacuum Heat Treatment techniques. They don't cause scale to form, as far as I know...

Originally posted by Sylvrfalcn
Hibuke, if you're going to go the annealing-rehardening/heat treating route don't get all them files annealed. Working with annealed steel, once you get it roughly ground to shape, you can use one of 'em to draw file the blade's flats and bevels to make 'em true and smooth. Finish the blade to 95% before the heat treating, understanding the hardening and tempering processes are going to generate some surface "scale" that's going to have to be polished off to bring the blade back bright and shiny.

Sarge

What? HUH? What do you mean there? Buy a bunch of files and anneal all but one, for profiling the others? Is that what you mean?
 
Yes. I think that's what he means.

A carefully controlled drawfile cut will result in a finish equivalent to 220-320 - which saves a lot of time in long run.

Dan
 
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