OT: My Japanese students

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
5,594
I know yall are sick of hearing this stuff, but I wanted you to think about something.

Yesterday, one of my 17 year old female high school students told me that it wasnt good to wear clothing that was too colorful. (her friends agreed with her) We were discussing changing the japanese high school uniform. they immediately worried that someone might wear something colorful as opposed to the blue and white standard outfit they all wear.


A 17 year old girl told me that too much color was bad.

I nearly cried. These poor kids are stripped of their own spirit by the time they reach high school.

I don't expect you to agree with me, I just wanted to to think about this when your own kids do something crazy. You wouldnt believe how bad it would be if they NEVER did anything crazy.
A cultural lobotomy.
 
Ive made alot of mistakes in my life. And well, I continue to make mistakes. But its those mistakes, that I feel make me a human being. My life would have most certainly been much easier without those mistakes, but then would I really have lived? A homogeneous child safe society has its appeal, but maybe its the A merican in me that just doesnt feel that would be life. Keep on trucking Danny. You aint the only one who feels despair when meeting nihilistic Japanese students. :( :confused: :rolleyes:
 
Interesting. my daughter wears black. Black jeans, black t-shirts. She does look good in black, but the harder i try to get her to wear colors the more she fights it. Kids.

The point being, it's not an issue to argue over. I'll save the mouth for when it's really important...like drugs, sex and etc.
 
mamav said:
The point being, it's not an issue to argue over. I'll save the mouth for when it's really important...like drugs, sex and etc.
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Yeppers.

Danny I sure appreciate the insight into another culture. Kinda makes me wonder where the American kids stack up against the Japanese kids in education now.
For a long time we were considered way behind and the Japanese were considered to be much smarter coming out of school.
I know that American education isn't what it used to be and even Robert Heinlein talked about how much it had changed. He was offered Latin in high school!
I can even recall Latin being offered in some high schools where we lived when I was in upper elementary, doubt if it's offered anywhere now days.:(
 
mamav said:
The point being, it's not an issue to argue over. I'll save the mouth for when it's really important...like drugs, sex and etc.
Click to expand...

Gin, is there anything harder than raising kids? My 15 year old son is a pretty good kid, but I worry about him ALL the time. You're right. You've got to choose your battles.

Steve
 
De-lurking in five...four...three...two...one...



Felt kind of compelled to say something here. The interaction of the American and Japanese cultures has always been a little fascinating to me. So much seems to pass back and forth between our different cultures yet they remain just that, different distinctive cultures.
I don't know why these kids have an aversion to color in their school uniforms but I don't believe that their spirits have been crushed. The spirit is still there it just needs a way to be drawn out and allowed to grow. It took me many years after the passing away of my very domineering father to find my spirit but it was there, fragile and brittle to be sure but still there. Don't give up on them Danny, gently find a way to draw them out. The spirit is still there :)


gone
 
Bigun said:
gently find a way to draw them out. The spirit is still there
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As I understand the Japanese culture,
{take big lump of salt here}
'fitting in' (conformity) is the key to social acceptance.
Spirit's likely there,
but you'd be asking for rebellion, I guess.
Your kids probably want colors,
but jealous of those who can,
and fearful of losing acceptance / creating that jealousy in others.
 
DannyinJapan said:
...A 17 year old girl told me that too much color was bad...These poor kids are stripped of their own spirit by the time they reach high school...
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It can also be seen as a strengthening of their spirit as it's actually an expression of traditional Japanese cultural values which promotes conformity and holds the expression of individuality, or the calling of attention to oneself by means such as colorful personal decorations, to be socially unacceptable.

The same type of attitude can be found in some Christian Fundamentalist sects who practice "simple dress".
 
I've alwyas seen Japanese culture having a lack of true creativity, and that seems to enforce it. So often in my field(technology) and others I'm interested in, sucha s space and medicine, almost all the truly revolutionary ideas coem from Americans, Israelis and Germans, and otehr parts of Europe to a lesser extent. You rarely see anything from an actual Japense person from Japan(though Japanese moving to the otehr countries/cultures mentioned do well). What you se from the Japanese companies in this area is merely refining/miniaturizing work that someone esle had the actual creative thought to come up with
 
Yvsa said:
I can even recall Latin being offered in some high schools where we lived when I was in upper elementary, doubt if it's offered anywhere now days.:(
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In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

(In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit)

40 years ago, Catholic schools required Latin. Don't know about today though.

The Lords Prayer:

Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo. Amen.


Semp
 
Latin? I'll see your Latin and raise you Greek !!!

Saint Ignatius High School, 1076 W. Roosevelt Road, Chicago, IL, founded 1869.

(and probably every other Jesuit High School)

Latin was not an option, it was part of everyone's curriculum, Greek was just offered to the most intelligent. They had no problems categorizing kids according to their IQs in those days. Smartest kids were in "A", next, "B"....down to "G" when I was there.

If I recall correctly, the "A" classes included Latin, Greek, English, History, Algebra, Trig, Geometry, Chemistry, Physics, and more I've forgotten.

(You could move up from "B" level if your grades were good enough at the end of each year.)

I was in "C." :rolleyes:


Kis
 
There is a reason why people all over the world clamor to get into such US schools as: Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc... The myth that US schools are the fault of bad teaching, is well a myth. There are real reasons why some US students do poorly in exams, but then more often than not these are cases in which no matter how good the school the home environment is such that the kid has no hope. Uncaring parents, broken homes, drugs, gangs, English as a second language, etc...these arent the fault of schools in America. I wish we could build institutions to save these kids from their homes, but... Anyways, classic Japanese education emphasizes rote memorization, with a strong de-emphasis on original thought and problem thinking which are key to University thought in the US. Ive met so many exchange students, who have severe problems with the most basic problem solving, or thinking out of the box, but can do all the things we consider smart such as spout of latin, recite long tomes, etc... Anyways schooling in Japan is often viewed as a temporary thing. The passion to really pursue what one loves, is not valued as after school you tend to be randomly placed into the economic machine where you are asked to be just another cog in the wheel. There is a stereotype of a downtrodden Japanese businessman with his dejected overworked head stuck in a manga. Highschool and college is vastly different. Many times students only work to pass the test, but to retain anything or truly know is not emphasized. With the recent economic changes, things are changing. My counselor is always talking about how things are different than when she moved. I dunno, just rambling, with no real thought to tie things together. Oh well, maybe its them pooblic skoolz fult. :eek: :D
 
You guys are all very perceptive.

I am afraid that the motive behind all of it is group-identity and group-consciousness, which they ram down their kids throats from kindergarten until college.


We were trying to have a debate about changing the school uniform because it does not allow the girls to wear pants or a sweater, even when its freezing outside. (and these school buildings have no central heat or air)

The girls just couldnt bring themselves to argue for what they wanted, they pretty much talked themselves out of it.

One of their other big reasons was that "if someone on the street sees us and we are not wearing our school uniform, they might think we are students at that other (bad) high school and not talk to us"
 
"if someone on the street sees us and we are not wearing our school uniform, they might think we are students at that other (bad) high school "
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"instead of being a little hottie in a cute school girl outfit that might also be a prostitute". Sheesh. Hyprocritcal #@$%ing society.

John
 
thats right spectre, the hookers in Tokyo have started dressing the uniform because
a: they look like schoolgirls as opposed to hookers
b: their customers like it
c: they ARE schoolgirls
 
Well at least they have the entrepreneurial spirit!

I just had to fire an 18yo Just graduated from HS girl at my work yesterday, stole $800 to feed a drug habit.

With a 1 year old at home, I worry.
 
Forgot to say that my high school offered latin, french and spanish(and I graudated in 98). May not have it all anymnore, but did then.
 
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