OT: Zen in many places

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

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Oct 9, 2003
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I have noticed that there were many great opportunities to study zen in my American life that I didn't see before now. (When I say "study zen," I mean doing something that improves me emotionally and spiritually.)

Here are some of the activities in case anyone is interested:

Flyfishing

Flint knapping

Archery (with no sights and an all-white paper target - no scoring of any kind. you have to direct the target with your spirit, not aim it at a target.)

Shooting (same as above)

Knifemaking (if done without expectations of what kind of knife you will make)

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
 
Couple things- there are other budhisms besides Zen.
having a target without a bullseye is uneccesary. The target should be normal. There already is instinctive point shooting. Further, without a center to direct the 'thinking the arrow or bullet home' you've cheated yourself.

The alpha waves, or whatever, of a shooter before releasing the trigger are identical to the brain waves of a martial artist before attempting a difficult move.

I'm afraid I grew up in the Generation that thinks Zen is voting for Kerry, protesting drilling in Anwar, saving a few dolphins, and allowing the sea lion to decimate the aboloni pop off Ca. Zen to them is listening to Blue Oyster Cult.


munk
 
"Go, go Godzilla!" :D

Uh, let's see- was it "sen undo"? Forget. Anyway, what we used to call "line drills"- a bunch of attacks thrown at us one after another- are a good way to clear one's mind, and learn to live in the instant.

Cutting practice, too. Shooting, playing a musical instrument, and for some, perhaps even writing.

John

For Sale:
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..understanding I don't have a clear idea of that 'zen' really is, I offer:

Listening to traffic noise
listening to water
listening to baseball, or playing baseball
Jets in the sky
working with clay and allowing the form to reveal itself.
being 7 years old, staring at insects, and letting your eyes unfocus
reloading ammunition, and many simple repetitive tasks
cooking

washing the dishes

looking for rocks
throwing rocks, especially at water

sharpening a khuk

cutting wood

holding a small child for just the moment he'll allow


munk
 
Dunno, but here's some stuff on Alpha wave training/testing.

Seems to me the "zen" of perception is attendant to the person in the situation: that is to say, as one allows the concept of relaxation to follow the belief that it will, then thinking about "focus," "unfocused," "oneness," "nothingness" predisposes one to relieve the tensions or distractions of other foci intrusions.

In effect, thinking it will, allows it to be.

I used some alpha-wave techniques with my younger daughter when she was beset with migraines in her adolescence. It often worked remarkably.

The thinking of a "zen" experience in specific situations may be too constraining to the the concept of the "zen mind."

It may be as simplistically stated as a Nike ad: "Just do it."

Dunno.

Kis




http://www.crossroadsinstitute.org/eeg.html


http://www.brainsync.com/about/research.asp

http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/200104/200104body3.html
 
There's something to be said for letting a purring kitten stick it's nose in your ear, too. Sounds like a bunch of Hell's Angels outside your window.

Also it is very relaxing to stroke a half-awake kitten laying against you while he purrs. What do cats know that we don't?
 
Target shooting: I did some before I went to college. The full-bore NRA youth program. .22 caliber. There were state and national level shooters on the line with us. Much of their self-imposed training program included learning how to hold one of the four positions, prone, sitting, kneeling, or standing in a completely relaxed position while holding the firearm with the sights on the target. For extended periods of time. Zen or Yoga, you call it. I think it is the same thing. The best could put five slugs in the same hole at 50 yards with iron sights. Zen archery seems to me to be a similar thing. If you told any of those guys that they were practicing an Eastern or Oriental meditation practice they would have likely done their best to kick your butt.

I could make similar comments about the other practices described. We in the West just look at the same things in a different way. I suspect that true adepts in either culture are equally rare.
 
I meant that there are some activities that allow your wordless, spiritual, creative self express itself.
All you need is to put yourself in a situation where one of the "controls" is removed or made pointless.

No matter how well you tie the fly or cast the line, the fish may not bite.

When shooting, the point is not to hit the target with the bullet, but to strike the target with your spirit!

Does that make any sense?
 
DannyinJapan said:
I meant that there are some activities that allow your wordless, spiritual, creative self express itself.
All you need is to put yourself in a situation where one of the "controls" is removed or made pointless.

No matter how well you tie the fly or cast the line, the fish may not bite.

When shooting, the point is not to hit the target with the bullet, but to strike the target with your spirit!

Does that make any sense?
Click to expand...

As I understand it, if one truely strikes the target with the spirit, the physical bullet or arrow is contrained to follow the same path.

Am I missing something here? Is Zen only the path on the way to reaching this point? What is left when one arrives?
 
Indeed, zen is a process.
Or rather, zen is the study and experiencing of a process.
IT does not have an end or an "answer."

Your question is the correct answer.

"catch and release" is a very good explanation.

What is left?
The spirit, for a moment, explodes like the Death Star. We call it "remaining spirit." in japanese "zanshin."
 
good answer, and it does not surprise me.

If I had more rigorously followed what lessons where taught and self-learned on the shooting range, I have no doubt that I would be a "better" and more "successful" person.

I see a lot of "compartmentalisation" in much of Western and "modern" thought. For example, I have known experimental chemists that thought themselves incapable of cooking. If they can accurately follow a procedure to synthesize a chemical compound, or develop a better procedure, why can't they do the same with a recipe for dinner?

It is all the same stuff.

Beware of compartmentalisation and specialisation. It encourages you to forget what you already know and apply it.

I don't know if these great marksmen who would spend hours aiming at a dot put on thier wall with a magic marker learned anything from it that showed them how to best live other part of their lives or not. All I know is that I missed out, at least for a good part of mine so far.
 
I think we need both.

I think we need to be scientific and spiritual at the same time.
And you know what ?
I think that change is happening, I really do.

There is a saying of the Buddha "Be content with what you have, be uncontent with what you are."


I think mankind is on the dawn of greatness, I really do.
(At least in America and parts of Canada)
 
Fishing inn Canada waay up past the UP and and NDN lands, where the water is calm, and you see more moose and bear than humans. The sky is clear and bright, and the water is calming.

I was never much of a fisherman until I learned the real reason for fishing, and it is what you say. You can take yourself out of space and time, clear your mind of sound-tracks, conversations, anything and everything swept away, making the mind receptive (like an antenna).

Then ya go back to the cabin, and drink/burp/fart/curse with the rest of the gents, all while smoking a cigar.:D

Keith
 
If you watch closely you'll see Zen practiced right here.

Ever read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"?

Very good read.
 
Danny, without the target you have no Zen. I don't expect you to agree. IT seems to me people free themselves from various restraints, only to find those restraints were neccesary to define freedom.



munk
 
I was never much of a fisherman until I learned the real reason for fishing, and it is what you say. You can take yourself out of space and time, clear your mind of sound-tracks, conversations, anything and everything swept away, making the mind receptive (like an antenna).>>> Ferrous

If there is a 'real' reason for fishing, it is to eat. But let's say it is more than that.

There is an major philosophical and perceptual problem with this thread now. I notice the 'either or' choice scheme is reasserting itself. I have news for all of you sharing the less than tangible realities: there is no shooting without the target, there is no fishing without the fish, there is no martial art without the possibility of the fight.

Even the kitten's purr exists in this space and time.


munk
 
Disagree, at least from a Zen/Daoist perspective. The removal of restraints and barriers (in ones mind) are what lead to enlightenment and freedom. Truth is, most folks don't know what to do with freedom, or enlightenment. That is also okay.

Yep, originally, the fishing was done to put food onn the plate, but so was hunting. After hunting and fishing, I'd say fishing is more relaxing and enjoyable tho.

Munk, you've hit the nail on the head with the sharing of intangibles, it is just darn near impossible to do, since they are all quite subjective. Love can mean diff things to diff people. Ask yer congregation what God is, and you'll get that many diff answers. The best we can do with text is illustrate an exp and try to extract the learning at its core for another to ponder, on the off chance that they do get it and can understand it.

Kinda like Danny's and Soke's "All weapons are the same" philosophy--either ya get it, and it means something, or ya don't and it sounds like some Confucianist puzzle.

As Osho would say, the truth is easily explained away by the brain, so often you are told what you need to to reach a state, not a description of the state or the state of things when ya get there.
So in closing, I say find a secluded finshing hole, take the boat and a rod (or don't) and go there, and just be there.

Keith
 
I agree with Bill, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is a good read. I recently completed the book Zen Combat thankfully the book talks of Zen's relation to various martial forms. I'm now about attempting to read Autumn Lighting (a book for the American Samurai).



As one of my philosophy teachers once said, "the great man is he who does not lose his childlike heart".
 
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