OUCH that HURT!!!

David Loukides

David Loukides

Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
1,363
For those who thought I injured my self it wasn't that kind of hurt.
We talk about ethics every so often so here is what happened.
This morning I wrote a bill out for a santoko I made.
Problem was I was in a rush.
Double and triple checked the numbers.
Pushed Send.
Came home and saw that my paypal was $100. short.
The end result was to inform the customer about the mistake and tell him that my word was more important
than the money and said I will be shipping him the knife within 2 days.
In making knives I have ruined material before and shipping a faulty product is not expectable to me.
This is the first Billing mistake and it hurts just as much as ruining a blade.
Just food for thought.
 
Wait a minute... so basically you are telling me that the customer agreed to a price and you sent him a different amount than the agreed price?

So what is the problem? You aren't WalMart... you can't absorb that cost and not feel the pain. What was the customer's response? If they hold you to the invoiced price, knowing it was a mistake, I would be pissed. This is not about keeping your "word"..... you are not raising the price at the last minute, you are simply asking for the agreed selling price. It doesn't work like that in business. Nobody was scammed, unless your customer decides to scam you out of your $100 dollars...... now I'm pissed!!!!:mad:
 
Hi Rick,
The original discussed number was correct, the finial # I gave him to confirm total cost was wrong.
The payment was made. Yes I did inform him I made the mistake. I thought since it was my screw up I was responsible for it.
So for next time I think you would advise me to send a correction amount note after payment was sent.
Next time I go down this road I want to be better prepared.
Thanks for your input.
 
I'm with Rick on this one. If you quoted a price and he said "Yes go ahead and make it" then that's the price.

If you misquoted the actual written bill, well that stuff happens. I don't see anything wrong with saying "Hey I made a mistake on the bill. that figure should have been $XXX.xx"

Any honorable person should see that and agree without a moment's thought.
 
David, I went and looked through your gallery and your work is amazing. It's an honest mistake and not something that should even force you to think twice. I am with you that your word is your bond, but in this case, you didn't break your word, only a typing error. It would be different if you quoted him one number in the beginning and were now asking for more, but you're not. There is no reason you should be giving this cost away for making an honest mistake.
 
Thanks John,
Based on what you and Rick said I now have a better Idea of the proper way on how to handle it.
 
David,

I thought I'd chip in as a consumer, rather than a producer. If I was paying someone for work, and this situation arose, I would hold it to my word and honor to pay the original price. You made a simple error, and accidentally charged less than the price you agreed on. If I liked your work (which I do, maybe I should say if I could afford more knives :) I would pay the price you originally quoted me so that you could continue making your knives.

Hopefully he feels the same way.

~Robert
 
Hi David!

I understand why you did what you did and find no fault in your reasoning. I ship 20,000 dollars worth of materials every year and do my very best to be absolutely honest and fair in my dealings. If I make a blunder that cost me money I will eat the mistake rather than dicker with the person I am dealing with. If a person overpays I send the overpay back to them. I am the one operating the business not the person buying from me.
Thing is you learn through those mistakes and they rarely happen again. Bad press of any kind on the internet can be the kiss of death so for the small amount of money it cost me; I find it money well invested.

Regards, Fred
 
Yeah bud, if it was invoiced through PP you could easily send in back and reinvoice. If it were me I would have emailed the customer with something like...

"After reviewing our recent transaction, I noticed t I mistakenly invoiced you for a $100 less than our agreed price. I'm sorry if this causes any inconvenience but would like to reinvoice you for the proper amount."

It is as simple as that.... for PPal, that is. Money Orders can be handled differently.... you have to consider the time and fees your customer incured for that method of payment. The most important rule is never EVER ship until AFTER you receive payment. If you are truly unhappy with something, you have every right to refund your customer and terminate the transaction.

Three easy rules a knifemaker should live by...

1. Never take money upfront(unless it covers the cost of special materials)
2. Never ship before you get paid.
3. Never quench O1 in icewater.

Rick
 
I can relate to and appreciate your desire to conduct your business with a high degree of integrity (I am the same way), but I also agree with the notion that this was simply a clerical error and you should not necessarily feel obligated to 'eat' such an error in the future. I think that any customer who is a 'reasonable' person should completely understand the situation and be more than willing to allow you to correct it to reflect the previously agreed upon price.
 
As a buyer if I was sent an invoice for $100 less than the agreed price I would query whether a mistake had been made - there is no way that you should eat this loss and a buyer who takes advantage of your error is not being cool.
 
This is why I have my Office Manager (AKA girlfriend, who is way more savvy than me and despite being a sweetheart, does not balk at correcting mistakes, no matter who made them) deal with invoices.

David, I understand you not wanting to queer a deal or lose a potential repeat customer, but you don't have to eat a typo that costs you a $100. Selling knives is business, and it would be perfectly reasonable to update the final invoice to reflect the original quote.
 
I would absolutely contact the customer and explain the error... I assume he would already have known the price was off....Mistakes in the making where you have to redo a knife are NOT the same as a "typo"
 
Buyer should have noticed the discrepancy and notified the maker and straightened it out before paying. Not that it's the buyers responsibility to remind the maker what the agreed upon price was, but the honorable thing to do would have been to question it, or better yet send the agreed upon amount with a note to check his figures.

Anyone who appreciates what you guys do should not have the mind set that they made out because the maker made a clerical error.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Yeah bud, if it was invoiced through PP you could easily send in back and reinvoice. If it were me I would have emailed the customer with something like...

"After reviewing our recent transaction, I noticed t I mistakenly invoiced you for a $100 less than our agreed price. I'm sorry if this causes any inconvenience but would like to reinvoice you for the proper amount."

It is as simple as that.... for PPal, that is. Money Orders can be handled differently.... you have to consider the time and fees your customer incured for that method of payment. The most important rule is never EVER ship until AFTER you receive payment. If you are truly unhappy with something, you have every right to refund your customer and terminate the transaction.

Three easy rules a knifemaker should live by...

1. Never take money upfront(unless it covers the cost of special materials)
2. Never ship before you get paid.
3. Never quench O1 in icewater.

Rick
Click to expand...

What don't you like the sound of shattering steel?
 
unky_gumbi said:
What don't you like the sound of shattering steel?
Click to expand...

Don't laugh.... I actually did that. When I made my first knife shaped objects, I knew VERY little about heat treatment and thought "the faster the quench, the harder the steel, the better the knife". Every internet article said that O1 was a great beginner steel. I wanted the very best heat treat and thought "Well, the Japanese Katanas are magical, so I should also coat the spine with clay!". So with my clay coated O1 blade(fully finished and sharpened), a bucket of icewater and a MAPP gas mini forge I set out to make the king of all knives... "There can be only ONE!!". I heated that sucker as hot as I could get it (My guess now would be around 1800F-1900F), plundged that puppy down into the water and stirred vigorously.....

I am still haunted by the sounds that came from that bucket..... I am convinced that they did something similar for the soundtrack of Godzilla roaring.

Educate yourself........ it helps.

Rick
 
Just my opinion, but if you had made the "clerical error" the other way and charged the customer $100 more than agreed on, would he have paid it without contacting you first? If the answer is yes, then call it even. If the answer is no, then the customer should probably pay you the $100 but I wouldn't let it sour the deal either.

randy
 
My only thought to add to the already stated opinions is: If the customer wants to hold you to the incorrect amount, it is probably a customer that you don't want to deal with in the future. We all make mistakes, some more than others (:D).

I am headed out to grab a bucket of Icewater and O1.
 
I think you handled it well. Since you let the customer know, I bet in a polite and respectful way, and they didn't make any effort to hold up their end of the bargain. Better to move on and put a little question mark next to the 'account' in case there's future business. That one probably would have ended up in a nonproductive back and forth. Good for you for dealing with the situation on your terms.
 
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