outdoor comfort

[counsel-of-record]

I read that the SAS teaches each soldier to carry two sets of clothes. One set is the "****" set that you wear all day while you are working, hiking, blowing up stuff, etc and the other set stays dry and is only worn in camp. Apparently the philosophy is to stay warm and dry at night so one can fight well the next day. That seems a good idea for survival as well (if we have the luxury of a spare set of clothes). Anyway it certainly seems to minimize the load we would need to bug out with in an emergency.
Any comments or alternate views?
Thanks
Counsel

 

[coyotlviejo]

On my wilderness forays I usually take fewer pants and shirts than days that I expect to be out and about. The reasoning is that I don't have to look beautiful for anybody, so wearing them several times is usually okay.

However, I almost always take one extra pair of underwear, and I take half again as many pairs of socks as days that I'll be out. For example, if I'm going to be out for four days, I'll take five pairs of undies and six pairs of socks.

Then again, I'm remembering a post from a different thread where somebody suggested losing the skivvies. Maybe I'd be better off if I just went "commando"!

Good topic. Lets get more input.

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Camine con tranquilidad, sirva con humildad, y viva en paz.

 

[OwenM]

Saw the title, and thought I was going to have to confess my love for Therma-Rest, and even a lightweight camp stool, sometimes. Glad I didn't have to admit that to anybody.

I've always switched to a dry set clothes in camp, and kept one set for that purpose, when possible, but never really thought about it. On the other hand, I've been stuck in the field for several weeks with just a couple of sets of BDUs and made do with the underwear and sock changes. Made do without them before, too, and thought my feet were going to rot off.

Unfortunately, most of my outings are limited to 2-3 days, tops, these days, so I no longer get to experience "a fine and pleasant misery" as Pat McManus would say.

It's amazing how much difference little things like clean underwear, socks, and even brushing your teeth can make.

A sound philosophy, IMO.

It's just a 3/4 length Thermarest, so maybe I'm not totally ruined, yet

 

[allenC]

I prefer one set of outer clothes for every 5 days, but underwear and socks for everyday single day (and an extra set of each just in case). And I don't sleep in my outer clothes unless I have no shelter or sleeping-bag.
A air-pillow is nice too (and it doubles as a floatation device).

 

[Evolute]

Dare I admit this? Ah, here goes:

Being a nature photographer, I always have to carry a weighty load of metal and glass in addition to all of the regular supplies, and I often have to go far out into the wilderness for long periods. So, I am desperate to cut weight any way I can.

Usually, I only take one pair of clothes for the whole trip. If the dirtiness gets to be too much, I put on my raingear with nothing underneath while I wash my clothes.

I gave up on the whole underwear concept. I tried boxers, briefs, cotton, silk, polypropylene, etcetera, etcetera. When you do serious hiking, they all chafe (in the two places I'd least want chafed, too). They're tight, or they ride up--or both!--constantly, forcing me to stop and make some inimate readjustments.

Instead, I wear looser pants and use baby wipes. God, those baby wipes feel like a little bit of luxury, on a long outdoors trip. (In fact, they're an inexpensive small luxury worth using at home. You'll never go back to T.P.) They keep me squeaky clean, and they're much lighter than numerous pairs of undies. If you can't find biodegradable ones, then use the used ones for tinder.

I also wear no socks. But this only works if you also wear no shoes. In very rough terrain, such as aa-aa (jagged lava flows), I'll wear sandals. Otherwise, I don't bother with the footwear at all in the outdoors. If this sounds radical, keep in mind that most of the people throughout human history didn't have shoes. We're built to use our bare feet. I'm not necessarily recommending that you throw your shoes away: some people's feet can handle this while other's can't. But, it's worth considering. My feet are fine barefoot over rough ground, with heavy loads on my back, and down to about 20 or 25 degrees Farenheit.

Lighten your load. Free your testes and toes.

 

[Hoodoo]

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

 

[coyotlviejo]

Okay Evolute, now you really got us going! Will this be the beginning of the "burn your skivvies" movement? You've convinced me that the extra undies gotta go, and maybe the not-so-extra undies, as well! I doubt my wife will mind.

As long as everybody is airing their dirty laudry (pun) I might as well confess, too.

Someone told me once that you are usually better off for warmth if you sleep naked, or as close to naked as possible. The idea is that your various body parts can all share heat, rather than having the heat restricted regionally by your clothes. It's true! If I'm alone (or with my wife

) I usually sleep commando. In a group I still dress down as far as possible and still remain modest. In extreme cold I put on socks, and a T-shirt around my shoulders.

Let the revolution begin!

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Camine con tranquilidad, sirva con humildad, y viva en paz.

 

[Evolute]

I often sleep nude, too. Speaking of which, baby wipes can also work well for sponge-bathing, when necessary.

 

[OwenM]

If you must go au naturale:
Wear loose fitting pants, with no prominent seams in the "tender" areas. BDUs aren't bad, but jeans are out-particularly if you have a low crotch, high waist.
Don't try shaving like some athletes-your scrodes will stick to your leg + your upper thighs will get rubbed raw.
Talcum powder or-dang, forgot the name (stuff in the yellow bottle with the red cap, been using it for years, but the bottle's at work) helps.
Take it from someone who found out the hard way

Enjoy your freedom!

 

[Dave B]

Sleeping nekkid is fine at home: you can wash your bedding when it needs it. However, in a sleeping bag your body oils and associated munge will reduce the effectiveness of the bag over time, causing the insulator to clump up, thereby losing loft. I usually sleep in long johns: it's almost always cold at night up here. In warmer climates, I don't know...

db

 

[Evolute]

Allen C,

A water bladder with a hose tip which can be positively closed doubles as a pillow and triples as a flotation device. (It's also lighter per ounce of water held, tougher, and less packspace consuming than a water bottle.) I like the ultimate bladders best for this, because they have an internal baffle (meant to minimize sloshing) which makes them a good pillow shape. (They're also very tough, and hold more than 80 ounces.) Throw your fleece sweater over it to make it cozy. When you make your pillow out of your water bladder, it makes quenching your thirst in the middle of the night very convenient, no need to even sit up. You can also adjust the size and firmness of your pillow very easily by blowing into/ releasing air from the bladder.

While I'm on the subject of water bladders, I think the hose tips made by Blackburn are the best. They are the only ones I've found that really and truly combine being easy to access with no hands with being absolutely leakproof.

Happy camping!

 

[counsel-of-record]

If you use a silk bag liner, sort of a mummy shape, you can keep your bag clean as well as extend the range of the bag about 9 degrees. The silk liners are extremely light weight like 4 oz, and can be used alone in the summertime. Campmor has them as well as Jagbags in New Zealand for a reasonable price.
Bill

 

[sgtmike88]

Somewhat hand in hand with the SAS theory, I prefer to use super extra large loose cotton sweat style pants and t-shirts in camp and shorts of the same material for sleeping. They weigh very little, roll pack into very small and tight bundles that pack well, and wash/dry easily when it's required. Saves wear and tear on the sleeping bag and on me from no-see-ums and the damn black flies that are prevalent here.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.

 

[HM]

Hygiene is important and improves comfort!
Use quick drying (natural materials if possible like silk) underwear and wool/polypro socks. Two sets at least. One on you, one drying on the way on your pack/above fire/in the wind/under the sun. Switch for fresh one before sleep. That stays all next day too.
Wash yourself and your underwear daily if possible. If not possible, at least rinse both with water. If even that is impossible, air and dry both daily. Sunbath both yourself and your clothes. UV kills germs but wears out fabric and skin too

!
Wash and bath when rain comes but dry afterwards. Use natural or degradable soaps and do not contaminate water source.
Loosen dress when in camp or during stops.
Do some skindipping if conditions allow. It is even more enjoyable with suitable company

My two cents,

HM

 

[Bugs3x]

Excellent thread, guys. Sorry to be coming along a few days behind.

Evolute, you certainly provided some excellent ideas. I might very well have been the person who suggested losing skivvies in an earlier post, if not, then guess am getting my reality/fantasy lives too entertwined again.

Bringing this back to the top mainly because Doc Ron, Jeff Randall, et al, didn't participate. I'm really curious to know the hygiene habits -- at least frequency of bathing -- of the aboriginals with whom they've come in contact in SA. One invariably gets the impression that they live near running water of some size, and that fish is a stable part of their diet.

Am hopeful one or more of them could share their knowledge of the subject.

Thanks,


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Asi es la vida

Bugs

 

[rnpollard]

The SAS idea is based on being in a combat situation. If it hits the fan you need to be able to react quickly, there is no time to get dressed so generally you will sleep atleast partially dressed. When in the field I used to perform field hygiene at night and put on a clean uniform from the skin out. Then I would hang the dirty uniform up. When I woke I would (time permitting) take the clean and more importantly dry uniform off and put it back in my ruck and then put the other uniform back on. I spent a couple of years on jump status and a few with Light Infantry units. (Travel light, freeze at night!) By packing the clean dry uniform your ruck stayed lighter. And clean is a relative term. As far as clean undies and socks. I didn't mess with skivies in the field and would alternate three pair of sock with poly pro liners. I would wear one wash it and hang it out to dry. (By the way if you take a 50 cal ammo can 1/2 filled with water add a little soap like Dr Bronners or Ivory and strap it to the back of a 3/4 t jeep or a Hummer and you have a great little washing machine. Drive for a while, stop and wring, refill with clear water and repeat. Works like a charm!)

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Hoah! (Its an Army thing!)

 

[ohoisin]

the best skivvies i ever wore were lycra biking shorts about 3/4 thigh length. they wick away moisture and dry quickly i used them on a 3 week bike trek with Wandering Wheels (an awesome companfor extend bike treks, they go around the coast of florida my trip, across the usa east west & north south and around the edge of the usa and tey have even had an off road trip across china). When using thhem they dried fast after swimming and were washable via showering (i had 2 pair) the entire three week i wore nothing else on my bottom and never got a rash nor was i ever too hot or uncomfortable, when the trip ended i wore them as underware until they wore out in winter they kept my warm pants from getting wet with sweat and from sticking to me as they are very slick all in all the best underware i ever wore.

 

[GREENJACKET]

Two sets of clothing is about the minimum you can live indefinately in the field with. One on, the other for washing/maintenance. After about a long week wearing the same clothes; they become saturated with dirt (body salts and juices among other nasties). The clothes soiled with this level of dirt seem to all of a sudden fall apart. This level becomes unhygenic which can lead to body sores and stuff which does not lend itself to an efficient soldier. Its time to wash them and if you time it right the garments are totaly refreshed. You'll feel beter for it too.

I was no SAS trooper, but I can't remember ever sleeping out not fully clothed with boots on. Clean dry socks were the most important pieces of kit and hardest to maintain a supply of.

In freezing conditions it is extremely dangerous to wear wet clothes (damp from exertion) at night. Have at least a dry layer between your skin and the damp outer.

Bare feet do work in dryer conditions but takes a long time to acquire. They are also not amune to damage, as I recall there is a seed pod in Africa that is designed to have one spike upermost for just this reason

Underwear, some wear them some don't. Stop a march and half a dozen soldiers will drop their trousers to sort their underwear out.

 

[Evolute]

Greenjacket's commented: "Bare feet do work in dryer conditions but takes a long time to acquire. They are also not amune to damage, as I recall there is a seed pod in Africa that is designed to have one spike uppermost for just this reason."

Several things to say, here. Firstly, yes bare feet work fine in dry conditions, however it is wet conditions where bare feet work really, really well, far better than clothed feet. Feet stay much warmer naked and wet than they do covered in soaked shoes. Athlete's foot, jungle rot, and so on are problems that generally affect the shod, not the barefoot. Blisters, a problem that stems primarily from shoe wearing, is greatly exacerbated by water-softened skin rubbing against damp, tight shoe materials. Also, Vibram and various other shoe sole materials lose most of their traction when wet; however, the skin on your feet gains traction whet wet. Also, it just plain feels good to puddle stomp, wiggle your toes in mud and sand, and so on.

I am not sure what Greenjacket means about bare feet taking a long time to acquire, so I can't comment on that.

It's true that bare feet are not immune to damage, but, for a number of reasons, I'd consider that a moot point. To begin with, shoes are not particularly more durable than healthy feet. Both are subject to damage by seed pods, aa-aa, and the like. Also, both barefoot and shod have particular areas where they shine. Bare feet last no matter how much you hike; you don't wear them out and need a new pair after a few hundred miles of use. Bare feet are more resistant to damage from wet conditions, and particularly salt water conditions.

But the most important point has to do with the increased resistance to damage which comes from a combination of walking properly and having healthy feet. The footloose have strong foot and ankle muscles, greater flexibility, and greater foot coordination. Plus, we walk properly. Most shoe wearers pay little to no attention to how or where they place footsteps, and most of them have tight, atrophied foot and ankle muscles. They can't feel what is underfoot through their shoe soles, can't splay or bend or roll their feet to fit the individual needs of each footstep, and can't grip their earth with their feet. They falsely rely on steel shanks, thick soles, toe-caps, "ankle-support", and the like to protect them and give them license to step any which way.

Let me put it this way: I have NEVER sprained my ankle or had a blister on my feet.

 

[shadowfax]

"I am not sure what Greenjacket means about bare feet taking a long time to acquire, so I can't comment on that."

I think GJ means that if you've been wearing shoes all your life like most people, you might not have thick enough callouses on the bottom of your feet to take walking around barefoot. They have to be able to take the occasional rock/stump/etc. I wear shoes when I'm out in the wilderness because I don't want to have to watch the path for that next tree root so I don't stub my toe. I want to watch what's going on off the path. I also tend to go places where shoes might be that little bit of protection I need when a snake I don't happen to see decides to take a swing at me Additionally, wearing shoes enables me to take them off before going into the tent, meaning I keep the tent cleaner.