Outdoor Handgun Caliber Choice

H

Hazardous

Joined
Nov 27, 1999
Messages
42
Lately I've been thinking quite a bit about changing the caliber of handgun I carry when fishing, hiking and backpacking. I regularly carry a custom .44 mag single action and about 20 stiffly loaded rounds. I carry for defense against two and four legged animals and general shooting for recreation when appropriate. The pistol would also fill many important survival function if needed. I chose the .44 because:

A. I have one (three, actually).

B. I shoot it well.

C. The power level will deal with almost any situation.

The main drawback is weight. It's HEAVY! I'm trying to lighten up all the gear I carry after several seasons of busting my butt.

I read somewhere that in Montana there is no record of anyone succesfully defending themselves against bear attack with a pistol, but that the various bear defense pepper sprays are quite effective. Since they have mucho bear experience in Montana, this got me to thinking I might be better off with a small can of bear spray and a lighter weight pistol. I'm trying to decide what caliber and I'm looking for experienced opinions on the subject. Here are the conclusions I've drawn so far:

A. .357s are out, too close in weight to the ,44.

B. Lightweight .38s are a possibility if they have adjustable sights.

C. .22 magnums sound best because of adequate defensive power, accuracy and ease of ammunition carry.

I know there will be many people saying that the.22 long rifle is great, etc. but I just couldn't feel comfortable relying on it for defense against two legged varmits (something I hope never happens).

I'm open to any suggestions of any caliber except .22 lr. If you want to get specific as to make and model, please let me know why you think that firearm would work best. Thanks.
 
If you are looking for defense, go for the spray, and carry a knife. Anything much smaller than a .38 or a 9mm should be classified more as an offensive handgun due to stopping power. A .22 would be a primo survival implement, and would work fine for offensive work. A headshot is still a headshot. You could try a .40, the HydroShok round for that has something like a 90 Taylor Knockdown. And you can get small frame .40's designed for CC.

Other options, especially for a survival weapon, might be a .410 shotgun, and I think you can get those in a pistol format too...

As for the .44, there are some rounds out there that have had some success against bear. There's a manufacturer, I believe it's Garret, but I can't find them right now, that makes a super hard cast flat nose in .44 and .45-70 that has had success in a couple instances against bear.

Personally, I would either carry a survival gun, or a defensive gun, or both. I wouldn't try to compromise. I'm not saying a defensive gun would be of no use in a survival situation, just that I would do nothing to limit the effectiveness of it defensively because I wanted it to do a different task. But then, I'm trying to figger out how to carry a shotgun comfortably, so I can have an effective bear weapon up here...


Stryver
 
.22 S&W Kit Gun. I love my .44 mag and .45 but for all around general use and carry the .22 would fit the bill. In the woods I worry less about protection as I do other uses for a weapon. Of course I do not live in big bear country, and when I go where the bears are plentiful or the chances of runnin ginto some two legged predators are fairly high I might opt for something heavier like my lightweight .45. A .22 and my Cold Steel Shovel would give most two legged varmits reason for pause.

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Lee

LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde
 
Garrettcartridges.com is the place previously mentioned. Neat stuff. But I have to tell you if I were worried about bear, I carry a rifle (my Marlin 1895 in .45-70) or a shotgun loaded with slugs.

I'd have a handgun but it would be what I carry everyday, a Glock 23 .40 S&W. The reason I'd just carry my everyday gun would be, 1)I'm familiar with it and feel comfortable with it and 2) I know how and were it shoots as opposed to a firearm I don't carry everyday or shoot all the time.

Like Clint Smith says, "Use your handgun to get you to the rifle you should have been carrying in the first place!"

The truth of the matter is that handguns have lousy stopping power. A rifle bullet generates gobbs more power and velosity than any handgun round. I'm talking about standard weapons now, not the custom/semi custom Contender type handguns.

Of course, you should use the right firearm for the task. If your not going to be in an area were you might encouter any bear, there's no need for a really large caliber. weapon.

Vince

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Stay sharp and be Safe!
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That which does not kill us only makes us stronger.
F.W. Nietzche
 
For a very lightweight firearm that still meets your criterion of chambering at least a 22 mag, consider a Mini-Master by NAA. I can't find the weight but mine with a 4" barrel only weighs a few ounces. It is definitely not a problem to carry. You can get a conversion cylinder so you can shoot either 22 lr or 22 mag.

Drawbacks - only 5 rounds in the cylinder, then you have to remove the cylinder for a reload. Also, I have had 2 NAA minirevolvers break the internal mechanism that advances the cylinder. Both times after more than 1000 rounds. The revolver can still be fired in this condition, but you have to manually advance the cylinder. Each time the firearm was repaired free of charge by the factory.

You can see a picture at http://www.naaminis.com/naaminis.html#MiniMaster .

I also sometimes carry a S+W snubnosed 38 (model 442?). But it's not as light as the Mini-Master.
 
S&W .41mag. Moutain pistol. I just happen to be a little weird. I hand load and have one load that was given to me by Hogdon that generates as much power as most .44 factory loads with less recoil. The .41 bullet also penetraits better than most normal .44 loads. I WILL NOT! post the load. It is safe in all of my guns but possibly not in others.
I also have two .41mag rifles that make it practicle for me to have this one caliber battery.

Cheers,

ts

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Guns are for show. Knifes are for Pros.
 
Since you say you are carrying a SINGLE ACTION .44, I'd assume it is a LARGE handgun like a Blackhawk! Hence, you could stay with the .44 and go to a smaller "package". Bowen Arms and S&W have MOUNTAIN GUNS based on the Redhawk and M629 respectively, that are smaller and LIGHTER! Both will handle the .44 magnum.

Personally, I prefer the stronger Redhawk. My 'dream' revolver is the Bowen Arms Mt. Gun which is a 4.5" barreled and ported Redhawk, with all corners rounded and lightened. The grip is even cut down.

You could carry it LOADED with SIX heavy 320+ grain rounds for anti-bear medicine then carry .44 SPECIALS with 180 gr bullets to cut weight.

Just an idea to keep your .44's!
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Now as to SWITCHING rounds, you may want to consider going all the way down to the .22 LR and forgetting the bear defense altogether. There are several firearms to pick from this way.

And a THIRD solution could be to go to a single shot TC Contender with any of a multitude of calibers. One may be the .45 LONG COLT/.410 shotgun!! Accuracy isn't the greatest with .45 LC, but may work for your needs. The .410 would give you quite the small game capability. Many hunters from my home area hunt PHEASANTS with the 10" model.

Good luck!



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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com

You use what you have on you, then you improvise! :)
 
Let me first say thanks to all who have replied so far - great info.

I really think Stryver is on to something when he says either carry a survival gun, or a defensive gun, or both, but don't compromise. I agree and I will try to use this idea to shape my ultimate decision.

I think all the folks on this forum should follow the bear defense link Jimbo posted. All I can say is WOW. This deserves its own post, Jimbo, I'll do it if you don't (you'll get credit, of course).

For those wondering, my current favorite .44 mag is a custom stainless Virginia Dragoon. The barrel has been cut to 5 1/2 inches, the action tuned and smoothed, the sights upgraded, the ejector rod housing replaced and it wears stag grips. The Virginia Dragoons offer something you can't find on today's market, a stainless single action with Colt-style lockwork (the new model Rugers DO NOT operate in the same manner as the traditional Colt). They are amazingly strong and often a bargain on the used market. If you need stainless and love the old Colt lockwork, they are the way to go. I also have a couple of old model Rugers and like them, too. The only draw back to Colt lockwork is that the pistol becomes a five shooter because you must carry with an empty chamber under the hammer.

I have shot a friends .44 mag S&W Mountain Gun extensively with 300 grain loads and while muzzle flip is extreme, the Hogue grips do a good job of soaking up the recoil of such a light gun (even though they are ugly as sin). It might be the way to go.

I'm leaning towards a medium sized can of bear spray (no small cans, read Jimbo's link) and my old model Ruger Super Single Six with the .22 mag cylinder in place. The grip is aluminum, so it's light, and the piece is very accurate. Plus, it's a single action.

Feel free to post more info folks, as I'm still open to any suggestions.

 
I believe that I'd use the bear spray over a handgun. While handguns are not legal for carry in the bush here, I do have extensive experience with them with silhouette shooting. So I've used 44's in all varieties, even the supermag.
Having said that I usually carry an old Mossberg with 3" slugs when alone - and always a .375 when with kids. I may go with bear spray when alone - but always with the .375 when with kids. Lots of griz here!

Jimbo
 
Hazard, I do love my .44 Ruger, it is my favorite gun. The reason I didnt pick it is for the same reasons Stryver mentioned. In a .44 it is hard to beat a Ruger Redhawk, mine is equipped very similarily to what plainsman described. I had it worked on by Mag-na_port International. The barrel is cut to 4.5 inches, it has been ported and the action worked over and has baughman sights, it is truly one sweet piece of work and is not as bad as some think to carry on your hip, although I quite often use a bandoleer holster for hunting.

If I had to bet my life on a gun against grizzlie or borwnies, it would be a .460 weatherby, or a 3 inch 12 guage slug though.

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Lee

LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde

[This message has been edited by MichLee (edited 02-08-2000).]
 
For a bear rifle I would choose the Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 fitted with Ghost Ring sights and loaded with Garrett heavy loads. The gun weighs under 7 lbs. and is short and handy.

For a handgun in the woods I will stick with my 39 1/2 oz. S&W Mountain Gun in .44 mag loaded with 3 240 grain SWC over 7.5 grains unique for general use and 3 Federal 300 grain Castcores for serious use. I plan on buying some Garrett 310 grainers but man those babies be expensive!

I just bought a S&W 317 .22lr which weighs 12 oz. empty. I haven't shot it alot but like it so far. S&W just came out with a new .38 kit gun (337?) that is superlight with 3" barrel and adjustable sights if that is of interest.

If you haven't read it, check out Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" from the library. He discusses ALOT of bear and couger stuff with real life experiences.

There is my current take on the subject
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John
 
If you don't mind a snub-nose, the S&W Model 337, is a titanium .38 special weighing 12 oz. It's supposed to be +P rated. In a snub-nose I like to custom load inverted hollow-base wad cutters (super large hollow point) rather than the super fast (noisy) light pills.

I routinely hunt rabbits with the snub-nosed .22 equivalent. Unless they're running I always go for the head shot. It save meat.
 
I just read the latest "Shooting Times" magazine last night and it had an article on the S&W airlites. There is a 6 shot .32 mag, 2 versions of the 337 .38 kit gun in 3" barrel with adjust. sights (one with Baughman sights the other with a fiber optic site) and a 19 oz 5 shot .44 special (the Mountain Lite). For those giving serious consideration to weight, these babies may fit the bill. Also, Taurus appears to be coming out with all titanium 24 oz. kit type guns in .357 mag (seven shot), .41 mag (5 shot) and .45 Long Colt (5 Shot). Ouch!
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John
 
My favorite dirt-tolerant gun is the S&W M19 "Combat Magnum" 357/38. Not that much larger than the Charter Arms "police bulldog" and I like the 357/38 option. Comes in different barrel lengths (mine's 2.5"). A very well balanced, smooth-firing revolver.

I used to have a Ruger Security Six that rattled the teeth in my skull and made me feel like Barny Fife, but I loved it,,, wouldnt trade the M19 for it tho.
 
Lower weight, defensive against folks and critters adds up to a Glock 29. 10MM loads can be had from mild to powerful. With your present hiking gun, you should have no trouble handling the 29, even with the most robust ammo.
 
Here's a different angle for you. Think about a TC CONTENDER with a .223 barrel and a cartridge adapter to shoot .22 ammo.

You would have a small to medium game weapon that could be pressed into service for slightly larger game. Also, it could be a human aggressor deterrent, especially with a 10" barrel and that horrendous muzzle flash and ROAR using H335 powder!
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Good luck!


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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com

You use what you have on you, then you improvise! :)
 
How about a Freedom Arms .45 Long Colt. 5 shot cylinder, light, but built to take the 45 loaded up to the limit. There was an article in Guns&Ammo about a year ago. Some of the loads that were available for it (handloads?) were easily stronger than 44 Mag.
Me personally, if I was concerned with grizzley, I'd go for Marlin's .45-70 guide gun. Period. 'Course, that's not a handgun....
Don't mind me though. See my profile? I live in MD. Not many grizzleys around here. And I've camped practically with black bears and not had a problem.

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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
 
I usually carry my Glock M21 in .45 caliber. With the right loads it's plenty effective for hunting (close range) and defense. A reasonable package (weight, portability, carryability, etc.) given all the different variables.

For sheer fun and food gathering, a .22 semi-auto is awfully hard to beat!

A better bet in big bear country would be the Marlin lever action in .45-70 or a 12 gauge w/slugs.

AJ
 
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