Overeynder/Hochstrat collaboration - gold shortage deepens

HTMD

HTMD

Joined
Feb 15, 2002
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File this under "too much fun" or in my case "too much gold." ;)
Brian Hochstrat finished engraving Tom Overeynder's folding dagger in time for me to photograph it before Tom takes it to the ECCKS in New York next weekend. Another fabulous piece of engraving and gold applique (?) by Brian, who also makes custom saddles! Can you imagine?

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So I did the above image as sort of a 'first draft' to see what happened and give Brian something to stimulate his own ideas as feedback for me. Brian's message was to the point, "I prefer a vertical format, one full view open set diagonal across the page and the other side closed and enlarged, also set diagonally." Well, me too actually, so that means I don't have to show everything - just two simple side views.

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Now Brian liked this image but he said, "No, the tip has to be up." Uffdahh. Did I miss something? Is that a convention in the engraving world or what? Regardless, from that moment on the tip down image looks terribly wrong to me - even though as a knife picture it's not bad. Brian did say he liked the background. Next: Tip Up

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With every attempt I manage to fix little stuff so that to me, the one above was much improved. Brian said, "You know, I really like that purple background, with the black and the gold and everything, it all fits together real nice." After literally fits of laughter I embraced my good fortune and resolved to once again do it better. At that moment late last night my son text'd me as follows: can U take us boarding tomorrow
Uhhh, I have to finish shooting this beauty and git along, but nooooooo... a father must do his duty. Quick like I cooked up something with a purple background for Brian, to give him something to chew on while I went up and down the mountain with the boys. Mistake. Never rush and never late at night...

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You know those e-mails you can't take back? Right... Got up early this AM for snowboarding, looked at the above and thought, "That's crap." Not a great feeling but I knew had the afternoon and evening to figure something out. I didn't even read Brian's response to the above. Instead I re-shot the knife and came up with something at least I can live with, and fired it off to Brian.

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I felt this was where the trail ended for me and this beautiful example of high art on a sleek edged platform. Brian agreed, though if I'd read his earlier response, I'd seen that he was fine with the purple rush job shot. For both of us though, it was the last image that won by a hair.

I am seriously humbled by trying to capture gold so that it looks something like normal. Problem is gold isn't just one color, one luminance etc. In fact it, like diamond and very few other things, seems to defy attempts to describe it by words or capture its essence digitally. It's ... different. Beyond that, the challenges mount steadily while trying to evenly light the engraved surface which continuously curves away in all directions to the edges. This wreaks havoc with focus/sharpness and even more-so, light fall-off producing patching illumination... sorry, Im done whining.

Forgetting all of the above, I thought it would be fun to put these together with some mundane backstory drivel. In the end, this is really about the knife and the embellishment and just immersing yourself in it with the help of multiple images... images specially crafted for delivery deep into your brain by what I predict will soon be confirmed as the ultimate source of everything good and true... the photon stream. :confused: ;)
 
Real interesting thread. Thats a beautiful knife! I will try to get a look at it next friday cause that gold is awesome. The damascus is really nice looking too. I am not sure but I may like the brown background image better! Nice work all around.
 
AWESOME work and great pictures Buddy! Brian is doing INCREDIBLE engraving and Tom Overeynder makes about as good of a canvas as could be hoped to have!

Boarder....hmmm...interesting. Do you live near the mountains in CO? There are some of the best areas out there.

Peter
 
Absolutely amazing artistry and skill demonstrated here in knifemaking, engraving and photography.
Congrats to all.
 
I admire your efforts to keep at it until you got a result you were happy with, and I have no doubt that you have done the knife proud.

Roger
 
Thanks, but you guys are goin' easy on me. Now my friend, master leather man Paul F. Long, Esq. (esq means someone older than me whom I respect) calls me up on the phone and we have a talk: Yes, I had to agree... UhHuh, well... OK, you're right... Really? Right now? etc. etc. etc. No, no, I'm fine. Click.

Time for Doorknob Shot. Coop knows about this phenomenon. In fact it happened to him after I sent him a dagger to photograph for me years ago. It's where you are done, the knife is ready to be shipped out, but there is a nagging doubt of some sort. Out comes the knife - bang, bang two shots - pack it up and now it's really gone. No more chances. Got home from the post office and sat down with those two doorknob shots (doorknob means 'on the way out the door'). For me, this is the one.

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Sometimes in my life, nothing happens until my back's against the wall. Why the heck is that? :confused: Maybe Brian will like this image. He hasn't said yet. I'll put a dang purple background on the next one.

Just had a funny thought. I bet I spent more time looking at this knife than its next three owners lumped together. Ha! That's funny. :yawn:
 
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Well, Buddy, the "Door Knob" shot is MY favorite and it rather well eliminates what we discussed, and I do like the background as well.

Only three of us know what we discussed.....you, me and God.

Paul
 
^^^ That's my favourite of the bunch as well. It shows the handle as an attractive slate grey as opposed to black or near-black.

Roger
 
Going by color I like the last one (door knob) the best, but for my taste both inserts are a bit too large in comparison to the whole knife and IMHO detract from the main image (the whole knife).

But hey that's from a guy who isn't even able to make a snap shot come out proper;)

Marcel
 
HTMD said:
Struggle #1, Struggle #2, Struggle #3, Struggle #4, Struggle #5...

...nagging doubt.
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He he he! I can SO relate. Welcome to MY world. :p

An artist is never done. If you put this knife and all your images to ten opinions, you'd have ten good proofs. All different.

Great clarity. You're picking nits. All reveal the beauty.

I'm enjoying the process. That which doesn't kill us makes me stronger.

Coop
 
What no purple courteroy. Just kidding :)

Yeah, that latest version is the one. You see the overall look of the knife, but then you can study the details in the macro views. The major reason I really like Buddy's work, it takes me tons of time to execute all those little shade cuts, to gain the depth and tonal gradients that I like to achieve, and he really picks up everything and shows the work that went into the piece.

Buddy, funny you mention trying to finish up so you can go slide down a hill. I did that Friday. Worked late so I could hit the slopes on Saturday. Supposed to be a big powder day here tomorrow, I am trying to not weaken, but I oh so want to play hooky and go.
 
I can't wait to hold this thing in my hands and appreciate it live. However, Buddy did a fantastic job of bringing it to life for all to see. Thanks for all the kind comments from everyone. Special thanks to Brian and buddy for transforming my canvas into museum quality in every facet of the imagination.

Tom
 
We are regularly exposed to beautiful knife photos on our forums and all in this thread are fine examples of this. However, in my opinion, it's as difficult to determine the true quality of a knife photo without seeing the actual knife as it is to determine the true quality of a knife just from a photo.

I like all the photos, would have to see the knife to choose a favorite.
By the way, what's the handle inlay material? I believe someone told me it was black jade?
Which photo most accurately depicts the true color of the handle inlay?
The fine damascus pattern is wonderfully captured by each image in my opinion.
 
Kevin Jones said:
...it's as difficult to determine the true quality of a knife photo without seeing the actual knife as it is to determine the true quality of a knife just from a photo.

By the way, what's the handle inlay material? I believe someone told me it was black jade? Which photo most accurately depicts the true color of the handle inlay?
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Kevin, your first quote above is profoundly true.
Here's my take on which ones best represent the knife if one examined it under good light as I did, including the Black Jade insets. (I don't know for a fact that it's Black Jade but it is black, jet black, but highly reflective too.)

You have to take the use of a polarizing filter into account. The polarizer will reveal the true black color but if one is not careful it will look unnatural or sort of 'way black' like a couple of the examples above. The highlights on the stones are very sensitive to light position and must be managed with light modifiers or dealt with in post processing to achieve a look that is both natural but also balanced in terms of brightness and blackness so as not to interfere with the look of the engraving and gold. I did not have this sorted out until the doorknob shot, the very last one.

Without a polarizer the reflections from the shiny convex surface create glare which washes out color, confuses the camera's exposure control mechanisms and at best looks like a skunk's tail with a big white stripe with some dark on the sides. This is generally true for the typical angles in a knife shooting set-up where the camera looks not straight down but pretty steeply down on the knife. At lower angles this type of reflection is much less prominent but the perspective of the knife may become distorted at such angles.

Bottom line for me is this: I'd have no problem suggesting to an actively interested buyer that this last photograph is reliably accurate such that arranging to see the knife in person would likely result in its sale, and not in comments like, "This isn't what I expected from the photo." I have a high degree of confidence in the accuracy of the doorknob photo, and in the doorknob phenomenon itself. That's based on, as Kevin says, seeing both the knife and the photo in real time together.

Terrill Hoffman, a great knife photographer whom many of you know and from whom I learned a lot in the beginning said to me one time, "Buddy, I don't know any other photographer so willing to publish his mistakes for everyone to see." Aw shucks T... Wait, was that a compliment? Or something else that requires a little translation... ;)
 
If Brian is happy, and if Tom is happy, then I'm happy. But unfortunately that's not the end of it. My wife Laura insisted I soften it a bit, make it warm and more 'organic' whatever that means. So to please her which, believe me, I earnestly want to do, I made this version. What the heck! Anybody wanna see it in a holiday greeting card format?

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Great job. I'd still go with the first 'louder' version, especially printed or going out to submit. You NEED this brightness on a reflected light surface (prints), vs projected light monitors.

It is just a matter of efficiency that, at some point, you have to declare "That's it!"

Of course, that point came after you showed Laura... ;)

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
Great job. I'd still go with the first 'louder' version, especially printed or going out to submit. You NEED this brightness on a reflected light surface (prints), vs projected light monitors.
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Thanks Coop - I will stick with the brighter version for print publications as you suggest. Printing the brighter version last night confirmed that's the way to go. As you know it still requires a giant leap of faith to send perfectly tweaked files out to a mag or book printer and hope it all translates accurately onto their printed page.
Thanks also for always lending me your eyes when I've needed them over the years. I still need them occasionally it seems. Between you, my wife and Paul Long I believe I'll be able to keep 'er between the lines. ;)
 
I also like the brighter version. BUT the colors are MUCH better on those last two final lay outs then the others. I think its much more organic looking then the other versions where the gold was too bright or yellow. It is much softer and more real on the last versions.
 
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