Overpriced!

mr44

mr44

Joined
Dec 16, 1999
Messages
383
Man those JSP knives are NICE, but boy am I gonna start something here.

These products are wayyyyy overpriced, even by custom standards, and that's a fact. I mean, let's look at the "production" CKB-Alpha. BASE price $195?!?!? US Dollars? That would be $300 Canadian, plus shipping, duty and taxes for a 3 1/2" bladed, guardless, handle-less slab of steel that essentially amounts to a glorified prison shiv. And don't even start on that "credit card blade." Hell, when I get a spare half hour/45 minutes I may just saw, drill and file a knockoff out of some 1095 or something, edge harden and save a bundle.

I know that I will get a lot flack for this, but it had to be said. I know that quality costs $$, but A-2 is not exactly a magic, exotic, rare or expensive steel, nor is the design of the CKB particularly challenging to grind. I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of justification for these outrageous prices... What do y'all do for a living to be able to fork out this kind of $$?

PM
 
Flame!! Flame!! I'm really flaming here!

Just kidding
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James Piorek has a loyal following, but this criticism has been offered before, and will be offered again.

I'm not rich either, so I understand where you're coming from PM, but I'm reminded of a metaphor I once read back when this forum was over at Knifeforums. James' knives are like Rolex watches. You pay for not only the quality but the name as well. There are many watches, far less expensive, that will keep time just as well. Just as there are less expensive knives that will cut just as well.

If you're inspired by the credit card blade, go ahead and make your own! I often look at James' designs and modify them for my own purposes. It's a great way to take pride in your own work, and save a bundle.

James is, and always will be, the Rigger Diety, and he offers inspiration to many of us to do our own thing. Especially those of us who could never afford his goods without selling our few remaining organs.

Matt
 
The bottom line is if you think that it is overpriced don't buy it. But if you take carrying seriously "one" knife from James with his carry systems is all that you need and will serve you far better than a half dozen other lesser systems. I know because that is my hobby I collect and use carry systems. The only one that I have met that can compete is Bud Nealy and that is a whole different approach. You do get what you pay for in the whole system it is far more than just a knife and few makers recognize that.
 
You get what you pay for. JSP stuff is reasonable once you have lived with it on daily basis. Perhaps reasonable is the wrong word, I would call it more like essential.
 
I don't feel overcharged in the slightest for my CKB-Alpha.

Wanna start a pool on if it makes it's arrival before Christmas?
 
Sure his stuff is expensive, but seriously take a look at what your hard earned cash gets you. Not just a piece of steel that's super sharp, but a carrying system as well. I'm sure some of us can grind a blade similar to JSP's, but when it comes to sheathing that blade, laminating the sheath, adding the sheath to a harness, and then adjusting it to someone's specific needs...well, now you see where that cash is going. Are there better harnesses out there? I haven't seen any...

I don't make a lot of money. The reason I am willing to spend the bucks on JSP's products is because it's the best out there, and I feel confident knowing that when the poo poo hits the fan and I reach for my JSP tool, it WILL be there and it WILL work, and NO ONE will even know where it came from!

Of course, if James ever decides to give out FREE Bladerigger stuff, I'd be first in line!!
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This is more about economics. The market is going to dictate the price.

Now, if James Piorek was overpriced in general, he would not have a 2 1/2 to 3 year waiting list, eh?

He is overpriced to some people.

You are not only paying him for his time, you are paying him for his designs.

The customer base is, to a degree, setting the price.

Let's compare two different makers, one similar and one not.

Phil Hartsfield, very expensive knives, Japanese designs. I have seen some of his 2 1/2 inch blades go for the cost of one of James' 5-6 inch blades...because Hartsfield has made a name for himself, period. His knives are worth precisely what his customer base is willing to pay. These Makers do not force customers to buy their knives.

Ernest Emerson, completely different knives, but still in the self-defense realm. Once again, you can find a gymnasium full of knife makers who can make the same high quality type of knife...but for far less. Does that mean that Emerson's knives are overpriced? No, it means that his customer base is willing to pay what he charges.

What you are asking is, for these makers to realize that they have a goldmine waiting for them, and you want them to continue to dig in the silver vein.

I do not think there are many knife makers out there that would turn the money down once they have name recognition in this industry. It would simply be bad business to do that.

Having said all of that, (sigh) I do understand your amazement and frustration, I wish I had a footlocker full of JSP Knives...they are weapons in every sense of the word...serious weapons. I cannot afford everything, I am not the Moderator here because I own the most JSP Knives. I am here because James is my friend and I happen to think he makes some of the finest self-defense blades and rigging anywhere.
 
I just wanted to add that I have a custom on order from James, and when all is said and done, I think that the pricing is actually quite competitive. I don't think I'm paying that much more than I would for a similar knife from a maker of similar stature. AND I'm getting a super deluxe, extra ass-kickin, matching manta ray shoulder harness that I don't think I could get anywhere, at any price, except from James.
 
I think that these forums are great! They give everyone the opportunity to voice their opinions, concerns, desires, kudo's, etc...

There are some though that will enter a forum (especially a specific manufacturer/topic forum) and throw a explosive device into the mix. Is this device aimed at providing worthy information, questioning the experienced so that they don't get burnt in a buying deal or is it used to incite/excite?

Mr44, I carry and use knives in my job - on a daily basis. This by no means makes me an expert as to how knives perform against each other or what knife is the best. I don't know the chemical make of all the blades on the market. But (in the past 22 years of doing what I do for a living) I've owned, carried and or possessed over 100 knives that have kept me safe.

One of the most unfortunate circumstances is that I have had to use them more than once in my job. So, I need a knive (and by the way I carry 3 on the job) that I can depend upon that ensures my success of my objective and of coming home (hopefully alive and with minimal damage to this body). I need a performance knife that does what it's supposed to do in one fatal swing, slash, thrust, etc. (hopefully you get my drift). I can't be dicking around with a blade that I have to make more than one movement with! There is an old saying in my job (and there are more than one), "Cut twice, die once". Think about that - it's sobering. I don't die well - my wife and kids will confirm that! I need a balanced knife, an extremely sharp knife, a knife that will take abuse - a knife that will do what "I" want it to do and again.....most important - one that will assist me in coming home - if I ever have to use it. And by the way, the carry system is the S#$T!

Mr44....Is James over-priced. Hell yes!!!! I wanted my system "FREE" also........

Hey James, I didn't know that you were Santa now!

But you know what....I (that's me) paid for what I (again that's me) wanted. Jesus, what a novel idea. And by the way, it's the blade that "I" bought. Don't ever remember asking you to reach into your pocket and pass the cash my way.

The wife was pissed too....but you know what.....she get's pissed when I just look at knives..... (Mr44 - looking costs nothing). I talk to her and she knows that I rely on each and every piece of equipment that I take into harms way. She knows - but she still gets pissed...... She damn happy when I get home though.

Mr44, look at JSP knives (this isn't a sell job - cuz you have your mind already made up)......

They are "designed" for a reason (and are pretty nice to look at too).

They are extremely functional (I know this for a fact!).

It's designed to withstand time (and other things).....

You think that JSP stuff is expensive? Take a look at other blades on the market!

Oh crap!!! Another saying.... "Ya pay for what ya want. Ya want it bad enough, you'll pay the price."

Mr44, I'll not ask you what you possess for blades the price that you paid for them. That's not my business and to be honest with you - tacky.

But, do appreciate your contribution to this forum. This country is great and is so nice that you can state what you want and not end up in prison....or better yet dead! Your statement kinda pissed me off (for about 2 seconds) when I first read it and but I'll be the first "MF" yanking you from the grasp of the bad guys as I'm sportin' my JSP system! And you'll feel just as safe as I do!

vr
GigOne
"Livin' Life - Full Throttle"

 
What I feel you pay for in the custom knives by James is the fact that the knife and system are made just for you. A true custom. With my Jashido compact he and I talked at length about my body habitus, clothes I wear and what I do and then made the whole package optimized for my tastes and needs. I have had it for two years now and it is my most carried knife even with several other options. That is because it works the best and I can totally rely upon it.
 
Well, I just wandered over here for the heck of it, after stumbling across JSP site. The knives look awesome, but I have a little confusion
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as well. Now, don't take this wrong... it is for the learning, not for the burning. For the price of one of these "systems," you can almost get a projectile system. And by the size and shape of some of these systems... it would be almost as easy to conceal. Now, here is my question. Would you, or do you, carry one of these in addition to a firearm? Or instead ofa firearm? You don't have to answer, especially if you feel this compromises your ... security (?). But I'm confused. Where can you carry one of these systems, that you couldn't carry a reasonably powerful firearm (9mm and above) just as easily and discreetly? Or is this a matter of carrying one of these instead of a firearm, because concealed firearms are illegal but concealed fixed-bladed weapons aren't?

Sorry if I'm asking questions like a 4-year old. At least I can say this much... for what you pay, and the intended use of the product, the JSP designs seem to make about as much or more sense than a vast majority of those out there.

------------------
"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
St. Mary's County, Republik of Marilundt

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 21 December 1999).]
 
Rockspyder -

The entire state of IL would be a starting point for places that a firearm can't be carried instead of a knife.
 
Maryland O' Maryland...gak! Baltimore City just capped 300 homicides again, at least they are consistent, for 10 years in a row.

A knife is one hell of a lot flatter then even a Walther PPK/S or a J-Frame Smith & Wesson. Hence, they are usually easier to conceal.

If I had the opportunity to carry a firearm, I would be packing my Sig Sauer P220 .45ACP and a couple/three edged weapons.
 
JSP blades are pretty nice but I don't know if you're getting what you pay for. But compared to other makers, the pricing isn't too bad. Since James has a large customer base he is entitled to charge what he wants and what he feels his skills in knifemaking are worth.

I myself would not hesitate to buy a JSP blade because they are excellent defensive fixed blades and his carry systems are spectacular. But if money is an issue there are other choices out there that will give you more bang for the buck when it comes to the blade.

The V-Gar is expensive but I think that everyone should have one. However a JSP blade isn't out of reach if you own a lot of other knives. Just put together a lot of the cheaper folders and fixed blades that you don't use and you pretty much have the cost of a decent system.

Lately, I've been selling a lot of the stuff that I don't use and consolidating these items into JSP items for examples that I'll have forever and be proud and confident to use.

Jason
 
Well, it's the day after Christmas, and I can now definitively state that the CKB-Alpha is not even remotely overpriced. The knife is custom quality, and beyond sharp. The lines and finish are flawless. The rayskin wallet is top quality. The kydex sheath is perfectly mated to the checkbook, and it is quite obvious that this is not just a knife stuck in a checkbook, but rather a system, carefully thought out and executed.

I will be honest and say that the $25 beads might be somewhat questionable, but at that point, whatever...they're very nice beads.

I don't see how the system could be duplicated with anything near this quality and finish level at a substantially lower price. Yes, it's expensive. But price a presentation grade manta wallet. Not a cheapie, but top quality, like James sells. You'll find that James' price is not even very high, let alone unreasonable. Same thing with the top quality custom knife and kydex work. Expensive, but well within the range of other makers of similar reputation and backlog.

If this system appeals to you (It doesn't? You're a freak. Leave us alone.), and you have the means, then I would strongly recommend the CKB-Alpha. I will also recommend that you purchase the knife single edged. Having an unsharpened spine with which to guide the knife into the sheath is going to undoubtedly save the life of my wallet.

I'm so damned excited to pop my wallet into the change tray at the airport, that I'm near giddy!
 
What continues to really befuddle me is the cost of everything in life and the reaction of people towards different items.

I know people that look at my JSP stuff, or Emerson, or Nealy, whatever and they are like, "What!?! Are you out of your mind?"

Then I ask them what they got for Christmas, these are "adults" mind you...

"Oh, I got the new Play Station..."

Look up the price on that, then whomever wants to come back and bitch about a $600.00 Custom JSP or a $210.00 Emerson Commander Folder, come'on back and talk to me some more about ridiculous.

Yes, it is almost the Year 2000, and yes, nice things have horrid price tags.

My Brother thinks I have completely lost it, he thinks the Spyderco Endura I gave him a few years ago for his birthday ($40.00) was "expensive." HA!

But he sure does like remote control cars, speedboats and all sorts of other things that to me, personally, are just about as useless as headlights on Reeboks.
 
JSP's Overpriced? I just payed $52,000 for my Mercedes E-320. In comparison of costs of things in general, I can't complain at all about the cost of my JSP Custom Jashido or Persian Fighter!
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OH YEAH!? I just paid $8.99 for a six pack of beer!!
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Hmmm...let's see. I paid for the beer with money out of my custom JSP wallet with its ingenious CCB($99), and my pants were held up with a JSP V-Gar belt($250) which also held my Wang Bo($160). In my pocket of my Levi's($40) is my Crawford KFF($375). Clipped inside my Columbia parka($330) is my Nealy Pesh Kabz($225) and an ASP Sapphire light($13). On my keychain is a Spyderco Ladybug($20)....geez, I'm a walking goldmine!
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And the funny part is I only make $3.00 an hour!
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So I guess compared to everything in life, Bladerigger is about right on target pricewise. I mean, we can always buy our knives from the Home Shopping Network if moola's tight! (yeah right)
 
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