Oversharpening

J

JOE NOWICKI

Joined
Dec 19, 2018
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360
Can a knife be oversharpened? I haved tried knife film to sharpen to get the sharpest knife and I got the edge very smooth but I can slide my finger down the blade without cutting myself ( if I felt I was being cut I would stop). I tried leather strops and the film gets it sharper but also smoother. I go to a 1500 Grit diamond stone and that seems to have a cutting edge. I still think about razors?
 
If you are sharpening free hand, you might be rolling the edge across the film as you lift it off at the end of your stroke. You need to lift the edge away from the film/strop, before you lift the spine. Otherwise you can roll the edge, and dull the blade.

O.B.
 
No I am using a KME sharpener. I do get it sharp using the diamond stones that came with the unit. I want to achieve the sharpness of a razor. I know it can be done, I saw men shaving with axes.
 
JOE NOWICKI said:
No I am using a KME sharpener. I do get it sharp using the diamond stones that came with the unit. I want to achieve the sharpness of a razor. I know it can be done, I saw men shaving with axes.
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Ummm ... Just 'cause they was shaving with their axe don't mean it was a smooth comfortable shave ...
What type of axe? A felling axe would not gain anything by being sharp enough to shave with ... and wouldn't be that sharp after the first swing into the trunk.

Think about it. An axe or hatchet should ideally be sharpened to between 30 and 40 degrees inclusive. A razor is sharpened to 10 degrees inclusive or less.
At least that is what I was taught 60 years ago. (knives were supposed to be 20 degrees inclusive, according to the sharpening guides Case and Schrade used to include with their knives.)
 
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Getting a true 'razor's edge' I think is the hardest thing to do and I have not been able to do it myself. I've carried a few Bucks purely for defense use that I tried and failed to get that type of edge. The trouble is it will chip easily and will dull quickly with ordinary use.
 
I found the problem of chipping was with my EDC s30v using regular sharpening stones. I would run my fingernail down the blade and felt them but couldn't see them until I looked under a magnifier. I went and tried the film and that stopped the chipping, made it very sharp but still would not shave arm hair. I get knives from Buck that takes care of arm hair very easily. Thank You Fella's for quick answers.

Joe
 
I have found that for me personally, I lose my “shaving sharp” edge once I get past a certain grit. Mirror edges don’t shave me as easily as, for example, a NIB Buck from the dealer. Maybe it’s my thinner hair. I don’t go too crazy with the sharpening anymore. My EDC edge shaves better than my mirror polished edge. Holds its sharpness longer, too. With the exception of shaving my hair, the mirror edges are absolute lasers though. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
I like toothy edges for just the reason you describe.

I think of every knife as being serrated, just the teeth are very fine. Once a knife is sharp it doesn’t get sharper it just gets a finer edge.

Not all knives will get shaving sharp, and it’s really not needed.
 
Very interesting. There is a guy named David Boyd who really perfected and promoted a process for steel that would produce a "toothy" kind of edge.
 
Over on the razor sharp thread there’s a link that deals with the technical information. They get down to the micro detail.

I don’t know, there’s a lot of things that can have an effect on edge performance. Not only the blade steel and geometry but the material that’s being cut. Hair isn’t just hair. Some is like wire and some is like corn silk and some is clean and some is very dirty with all kinds of elements amongst it. I don’t cut much hair with my knife as I use a shaving razor. I use my knives on a variety of materials and tasks including gasket removal. I prefer a micro toothy edge that has some bite to it and it doesn’t seem to dull as quickly as a mirror honed edge and it seems to sharpen easier with just a touch up. I generally don’t let them get to a dull state if I can help it. And with the better harder steels it is more to my time constraints allowing me to sharpen at my leisure rather than in the middle of work.
 
Don't run your finger lengthwise down the blade edge - ever. By the time you realize you're being cut, it is too late. I've known a couple guys who tested their knife's sharpness that way once, and cut themselves badly. (surprisingly, they were intelligent enough not to test the sharpness that way a second time.)

Go across the blade, if you must.

For a true test of sharpness, lay your off hand flat on a table. Place the blade edge on a fingernail. Then, keeping the knife vertical, with just the weight of the blade on your finger/thumb nail, slowly and smoothly angle your finger or thumb nail. (keep fingertips on the table and slide hand forward, is one way to do it) You don't want the blade to slip off until at least a 60 degree angle.

As others have stated, a "razor's edge" isn't necessary, and truth to tell, isn't practical for "real life" usage either. A "razor's edge" is actually quite delicate.
 
CJ Buck commented on a thread here years ago about over sharpening.. Its buried in these threads somewhere.. Maybe you can do a search.
But it wasn't about getting a razor edge. Just sharp.
The gist was that yes, you can go past sharp.
Getting one sharp and stropping the burr off to where it smoothly thin slices paper or hair off your leg or arm is about as good as I can get one.
Thats razor enough for me.
 
I'm going to go over to the razor section..Maybe I can learn something. One thing that's not discussed much is how 'pointy' a blade can be..I have a 2007 111 clip blade Club Buck that would stick in ANYTHING with the slightest touch. That knife bite me (or rather poked me) at least a dozen times in the 5 years or so it was my main desk Buck. It was only after I sharped it on a Work Sharp it lost it's extreme sharp point. I took pictures and blew them up to try to see what made it so 'pointy' but never figured it out. I wish I could put a point on like that on all my clip blade users..
 
My users get points like that. You just have to be careful at the end of the stroke. Then they get so pointy they break off.

Reminds me of my sister eating a candy cane. I’d bite them off. She’d make them into ice picks. Crazy sharp ice picks.
 
I got outside and see if it will cleanly slice a piece of bahia grass. if so sharp enough. i also check blade edge in sunlight for reflections for dull spots and burrs. i used to get obsessed with how it felt sharpness wise but realized wetter skin felt less sharp, drier more sharp. in reality the obsession was an endless chase and then a fear of losing that edge by using.

don't forget the point of a knife....it just needs to cut and thats all.
 
Just last night I was slicing some tomatoes with my Buck kitchen knives and one didn’t want to cut through the skin and was smashing it before cutting. I checked it and yep it was a bit dull. I needed to get done so I grabbed another one and it was nice and sharp ! Testing slicing on tomatoes is a good sharpness test and just how thin they can be sliced without smashing it. Afterward I sharpened the dull one and in a few strokes on my diamond steel it was back to sharp enough to skin a mater. Lol

I’ve found that on different materials and the density of them a different angle will make a difference. It seems if I use one that is under 12 degrees per side on a real dense material it might start good but dulls quicker than the ones with a 15 degree per side. I try to stay at around 13-14 degrees per side for most of my knives but I have certain ones like my 110 utility work knife that I purposely sharpen to 15-16 degrees for tough dense materials that I’m not shaving with or splitting hairs.
 
JB I get your 'point' lol! But I've found the point is important. Lots of things I cut I stick the point in to start the cut and in fact sometimes with tomatoes I will poke 6 or 7 holes to start and mark the slices. It's helpful with a slightly dull knife to avoid smashing them. On a few knives over the years I've carried for self defense I have worked hard (mostly unsuccessful) to get a sharp point. Once when I was much younger I was robbed in a booth in a restaurant in Amsterdam by a shifty character who poked me lightly in my side with a really thin narrow blade. It went in the leather jacket like butter only went in under my skin a 1/8"..But I got the point..
 
bucksway said:
JB I get your 'point' lol! But I've found the point is important. Lots of things I cut I stick the point in to start the cut and in fact sometimes with tomatoes I will poke 6 or 7 holes to start and mark the slices. It's helpful with a slightly dull knife to avoid smashing them. On a few knives over the years I've carried for self defense I have worked hard (mostly unsuccessful) to get a sharp point. Once when I was much younger I was robbed in a booth in a restaurant in Amsterdam by a shifty character who poked me lightly in my side with a really thin narrow blade. It went in the leather jacket like butter only went in under my skin a 1/8"..But I got the point..
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thats a story there, Sir. good thing it wasn't made of Bucks s35vn.....;)
 
Young and stupid..They sold hash right in the bars back in Amsterdam in 1976..Had scales bolted to the bar and I was a tourist bumming around Europe with a 3 month first class Eurorail pass.No hotel needed just hop a train and wake up in a different country..I had spent a few years in Bethesda Naval hospital and when I could finally walk a little I had to really get away. I wish I had a 112 on that trip..
 
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