Overview wanted of some "promising" steel types.

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koolstof

Joined
Sep 21, 2002
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Could somebody offer me some fresh insides regarding the following steels, the pro's as well as the cons of each kind are extremely welcome. In your opinion, is there any steel type that should be considdered as one of a kind, one that offers unmatched advantages. In other words a steel that deserves the closest of attentions ;-)

My listing of steel types I want to learn more about:

1) Damascus-steel and each subtype, if any. Is it true that this steel has most to offer in comparison to other steel types?. What should I keep in mind when choosing a knife like this? Wich models or makes have proven their extreme quality with Damascus.

2)M2/D2/A2 tool steels: it seems they are somewhat brittle and not very corrosion resistant, but what qualities these flaws hold in store. Wich are the pro's of the different tool steels. Are they suited to take a very sharp edge and keep it for quite sometime. I think they are hard to resharpen, should I considder this aspect?

3)BG-42: not that new but it does not mean that this steel has exceptional properties, I've found out the some actually deem it there favourite steel... Any insights please?

3) S30V, S60V, S90V, they seems to hold the promise of unparalleled benefits. How much of this is true? Wich one is the best of the three, in other words... what excatly makes the difference. If they offer unmatched qualities then why aren't they used more widely by more manufacturers? If you deem one of these steels worth my while, do you have any concrete purchasing hints? Yeah, I know, I excpect all one can expect from a blade, my ambition knows no boundaries. When I sooner are later am confronted with the harsh reality I just hope it does not hurt that much ;-)

4) CPM-440V: i believe it is fit for hard use because it holds a very sharp edge for extended periods. Sharpening should be more difficult but if you take the assets into consideration then the extra effort may very well be in its place. I'm considdering to buy the Spyderco Military made from this kind of steel, would I make a sound, reasonable choice... I don't know but Spyderco seems to have numereous die hard fans who swear by this brand. To me this smells of biassed judgement and failing to subject the much treasured brand to sharp critisism. Am I wrong and should bow down in blind admiration for anything that bares the infamous Spyderco name. Are they worth my confidence. What makes them so special (I'm aware that their customer sercice seems to be second to none), is their anything else. I have to admit that I considder most of the Spydies as quite ugly. Yes, I want functionality as well as esthetic qualities :-)

5) CV20 steel: I picked up the very existence of that type of steel. It ought to hold some noteworthy qualities, I would be very gratefull for a summary.

Tho conclude this query for your opinion I would like to know if there is any, new or not that recent, of high-grade steel that has escaped my attention and that deserves furher investigation.

I can't keep myself from launching this much asked question, a question that must seem obsolete to experienced knifey's or simply does not hold a straight answer but here it comes: What knife or steel type, if you don't take in mind the cost-prize, has the most to offer (even if it requires intensive care. Wich steel type is unmatched and why and what is the best tactical/utility knife in your opinion? Please don't shoot me for asking this crappy question. I'm eager to learn. If they asked me, I would say S90V or Damascus super steel but I really lack the required field experience to form my own solid opinion. Please help me out. I will considder any answer with great care. I will also try to keep an open mind and not to loose my sense for critics. But I NEEEEEEEED your input, I'm begging on my bare knees, divulge the wonders of ultra-knives :-) Man I'm desperatly eager to own the knife that fits excactly my demands and one I can manage to keep in mint condition, even if it is used (or abused) in the most adverse of conditions. If what I look for is very expensive I will bide my time and as I accumelate the required funds I will make sure if by then there isn't a better option. I am a freak, but a friendly one ;-)
 
koolstof,

First, what do you want to do with the knife? A great blade steel for one knife, is a very poor choice for another.

You question is sort of like asking what to look for in the best bicycle? A nice Tour de France road bike won't work well, on a rough dirt trail. Sure my Mountain bike will run down a road course but, the 100 mile Tour de Tucson would be brutal on a road bike and, nearly impossible on a moutain bike.

Do you want a knife to fell timber to build a log cabin? A kitchen knife to slice and dice boneless meats and vetables? A boning knife for a slaughter house? A fillet knife for fishing? and on and on .......

In the several posts you have made, I have not seen one reference to heat treat. An inferior blade steel properly heat treated will vastly out perform a superior blade steel with an improper or just plain bad heat treat.

ATS-34 is stainless steel right? Should it rust in 2 hours at the SeaWorld amusement park? One of my Benchmade knives did. I should note that the knife in question also had a brittle edge. Was this the fault of ATS-34? No! It was probably too close to the heating element in the heat treat oven or it was cooled and tempered improperly.

Your posts seem to favor CPM 420V/S90V as the steel of choice. Is it better the BG-42? Perhaps. I can resharpen BG-42 easily. CPM 420V is much more difficult to sharpen. That being said, in some knives I would prefer CPM 420V/S90V over BG-42 depending on use.
 
Originally posted by koolstof
What knife or steel type, if you don't take in mind the cost-prize, has the most to offer (even if it requires intensive care. Wich steel type is unmatched and why and what is the best tactical/utility knife in your opinion?
Click to expand...

There is no holy grail when it comes to knife steel selection, some steels are better for some applications than others, but there is no absolute Best steel.

For something like a light use (ie no chopping or prying) pocket knife/edc/gent's folder, hunting or utility knife, edge retention is often considered to be the most important attribute of the steel, usually followed by corrosion resistance.

Stainless steels such as CPM S30V, BG42, D2 (not really a stainless steel), VG10, and 154CM/ATS34 work well for such knives, as do certain non-steels such as Talonite (a cobalt-chromium alloy that will not rust at all).

There is no free lunch, these steels cost more and some are difficult to sharpen, especially if reprofiling of the edge is called for. They also tend to be more fragile and less stainless than "cheaper" grades of stainless.

For a big chopping blade, durability generally takes precedence over other qualities. Cost and ease of field sharpening/reprofiling to repair damage are also important for such blades. Very tough steels that will hold an edge reasonably well such as L6 and 5160 fill the bill, although they would not make very good choices for a gent's folder since they are not stainless, do not hold an edge as well as a high end stainless steel, and the increase in toughness is rarely needed.

For a dive knife you want to maximize rust resistance and toughness. Steels like 17-7PH work well here.

For a military combat knife you want something that combines durability with low cost and reasonable edge holding and field sharpenabilty(such as 1095 and Carbon V/0176-6C).

You might want to read Joe Talmadge's article on steel types in the FAQ -

http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqs.shtml

it should answer most of your questions.


-Frank
 
waw, tanks a lot, as for steel types I know have a good starting point with the overview offered on this site. I should facilate my choice and fullfill what I specifacly demand of one particular blade. Thank you very much!!!
 
As has been mentioned, you should not look for the ultimate steel. There are many great steels and you have mentioned a bunch of them. Others include but are not limited to, 52100, 5160, O-1, 1084, 1095, L-6, 440C, RWL-34, Damasteel, CPM-10V, CPM-3V, and INFI.

Pattern welded damascus steel is not better than the other steels mentioned above. It is however, when made with the right combination of steels and heat treated properly, just as good a steel as most for many applications. Of course, damascus has the same limitations as other steels.

I do not have much experience with M-2 or D-2, but I can tell you that no A-2 blade that I have owned has been brittle. Properly heat treated this is an exceptionally tough steel. As tough as any commonly used knife steel. I have never had an edge chip or been able to fracture a blade made of this excellent steel.

There are so many fantastic steels used in the making of knives today that if you take the time to try out as many as possible, you just might find like others have that there really isn't any one that stands above the rest at doing everything.
 
I am reluctantly growing aware that I can't win them all. I really value your insights, I see them as a shortcut to appreciate the broad spectrum of knives. I am also planning to buy one specimen of the steel-types that best meet my desires, your personal experience can be a real killer but I agree that it's the best way to learn what you are dealing with. Still, my interest toward S90V remains very much alive ;-)
 
koostof, S90V would be an excellent choice for a daily carry folding knife. If it is anything like 440V(S60V), it should hold an edge forever. Now, I would not want to sharpen it, but I do appreciate its other qualities.

S30V is the new kid on the block, but I do not happen to own any S30V bladed knives. From what reviews I have read from knife makers and users, this stuff is supposed to be the cat's meow. Time will only tell. For the time being, I will wait until either Benchmade or Microtech starts using it on their factory knives. Big D1
 
Oops, the mysterious big D1 is actually a nick of a helpfull users. My excuses, Mr; Big D1.
 
Aha, concrete real world information, not the dry theoritics and stats. This is a welcome approach, thanks.
 
hi, mr. stamp already answered this question in an earlier post of mine. but i wanted some other opinions. what is the best compromise in a steel for a less than 3" folder with very little belly. it will be used for cutting soft vegatables, opening letters, opening the taped part of boxes. must be pretty corrosion and stain resistant. i have come to understand that the material that fits this best is a well made (heat treated) 154cm. am i right? s30v is harder to sharpen and less corrosion resistent, right? but does it stay sharper longer?
the one thing that intrests me that i keep pointing out, is that most of the custom makers are using ats-34/154cm. i still do not understand why this is. there may be "better" steels, and the customs are geared toward knife nuts so why arent they all using s30v, s90v?



thank you,
holdanedge.
 
i was also wondering if there are any small stainless damascus folders under $300 that any one can point me towards. i decided to put the s30v umfaan on hold to get a little damascus first. it is cooler.




thank you,
holdanedge.
 
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