P.E.G. for wood stabilization?

T

tbush

Joined
May 20, 1999
Messages
13
I've seen some posts about wooden handles
cracking, loosening, etc. from seasonal or
climactic changes. Do knife guys know about
polyethylene glycol (PEG). Wood turning gods (Dale Nish and like that) turn all sorts
of reaction wood (burls, crotches, etc.),
spalted wood (the art gallery word for rotten), and polychromatic turnings. In polychromatic turning different types of wood with different characteristics are glued up and turned. Without stablilization
most of these things would disintegrate on
the lathe or split in some gallery. So wood turners soak these difficult woods in PEG. The PEG eventually displaces the water (sap) in the cellular structure of the wood. PEG
makes the wood dimensionally stable and resisting to drying out and splitting.
Huge burls (VW Beetle sized chunks of wood) require a year or more of soaking. Something the size of knife scales or knive handles ought to stabilize in PEG in days or weeks. Any knifemakers out there using PEG?
Is there some reason not to use PEG?

/tjb
 
Well, you can order stabilized woods from ost mailorder supply companies. I'm not sure what process they use. I know I've used PEG in the lab before, but I can't remember what for...
 
I would also like to find out more about this stuff. Where could a guy find some PEG.?
 
You can find PEG from many places. Try www.woodworkerstore.com or www.craftusa.com .
Another source is directly from the manufactures. Try Union Carbide Corporation at 800-335-8550. The first two companys will sell it to you, Union Carbide probably supplies it to them in some fashion. If you call UC directly you can probably get a free sample sent to you. You will have to have a business name to ship too since most major chemical companies will not ship commerical chemicals into a residence. If you make one up that will probalby suffice. Large chemical distributors will have it as well. Try Ashland, Chemcentral, Van Waters & Rogers in your local phone book. You can order free samples there too. If all else fails try the new eco-friendly anti-freeze. The old stuff is EG (ethylene glycol) the eco stuff is PEG. Might be a few other additives, but the PEG concentration should be high.

And yes, I work for a major chemical manufacturer.

Glenn
 
Re: more info on PEG

I first discovered PEG in "Fine Woodworking" magazine - published by Taunton Press. Taunton excerpts articles from back issues into a series of books called "Techniques".
Check your local library. If you are so lucky that your library has back issues of "Fine Woodworking", there is an annual index in the December issue of each year.
Probably, most modern books on wood turning are going to have some info, too.

/tjb
 
reply to Chiro75:

Most of the stabilized wood I've seen from the knife supply houses has some sort of plastic resin impregnation. That's a cool
thing, too. However, it looks and feels a lot more like plastic to me than wood. If
your supplier has something different, could
you share that, please?

/tjb
 
Reply to Chiro75

"Don't drink it."

You knifeknuts are a bunch of wild and crazy guys if you are tippling your shop chemicals.
I wonder if it would make your corpse dimensionally stable? Hee hee.

/tjb
 
Actually, if the effects on your body are similar to ethylene glycol, then you'd be in for quite a ruch. Probably wouldn't get enough to stabilize the corpse, though. It'll begin with central nervous system depression, like being drunk, with a feeling of euphoria. As oxalate and oxalic acid are produced, though, you will begin to feel the effects of impaired respiratory (metabolic acidosis) and cardiovascular functions. The oxalate and oxalic acid will pull calcium ions from the tissues and cause them to crystallize in places they shouldn't resulting in widespread, painful destruction of these tissues as they are literally ripped apart by the sharp crystals. About the same time your muscles will go into tetany (prolonged contraction of all the skeletal muscles). So, don't drink it. Of course, PEG might be completely different clinically (most likely is...it probably isn't nearly as toxic since the poly part means the molecules are big and probably don't do the same thing). Well, at least you
understand what will happen if you fall off the wagon and think anti-freeze will make a good buzz. As far as preserved bodies, there is a process in which the body of a cadaver is turned into a plastic-like thing. Basically like stabilizing a piece of wood, it sounds like. Cool thing is that it can be laser cut in really thin sections and they are presevred forever. You could have cross sections lengthwise, through the body...all sorts of cool things, and they would be paper thin. It's sort of expensive to do, though.
 
I don't think I've ever heard of PEG being used for anything that gets hard use like a knife handle -- just for ornamental wooden things. Maybe it is and I just haven't heard of it, though.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
In reply to Cougar Allen:

The stuff I have turned with PEG is pretty
much the same hardness before and after.
PEG is not a resin that hardens. If you
PEG stabilized spalted (rotten - usually with intersting stain patterns from fungus, etc.) wood, it's still fragile. Spalted wood is not "healed" or hardened by PEG. The PEG makes it possible (with great skill,
a deft touch, and razor sharp tools) to turn
wood that otherwise would fly apart or tear out at the first touch of the tool.

Mainly what the PEG does is cut down on the
grain tear out on reaction wood and stabilize
seasonal expansion contraction of a natural
material. If you start with a sound piece of
wood, the PEG is not going to make it weaker.

For woods like lignum vitae this may be your only choice. Lignum vitae is a favorite material for the sole or body of wooden planes. Lot's of people keep these planes in
plastic bags with a cigar box humidifier. It's a wood that almost certainly going to crack, unless you live in the tropics.

/tjb

BTW: That wood turner with great skill and a deft touch is not me. I do have razor sharp tools. Working on it...
 
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