Pace Beads/ranger Beads ? A few questions on them..

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Feb 15, 2008
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Ok folks,

I just made my first pace beads(ranger beads), and watched a couple of vids on using them.. Now I have a few questions..

Is there that much of a diff in your step with a pack on, or off or on different terrain(hills, etc) ??

With counting off your 1/10th of a mile and maybe mapping using that, wouldn't you be sorta close if things(emergencies, injuries) happened and someone else had a copy of your "paced" map to go by..

Maybe I'm thinking too much into this if so, sorry..

More questions possibly to follow..lol

Thanks in advance..

Tux
 
For me, there is not much of a difference in step length with a pack on. Try that for yourself. BUT: the steeper the hill, the shorter the steps. Up or down doesn't matter. If you make maps and use only your steps and ranger beads for measuring distances, it will be pretty reproducible because other people on foot have to go over the same hills that you went over.

I hope you can understand me, my English sucks today.

Take care!

maethor
 
Yes there is a difference in pace count concerning terrain only. Having a pack on should not make that much of a difference. As per the ESEE web site on "how to use pace count beeds"

Flat easy terrain: 100 meters = 65 paces
Rougher terrain w/ some slope: 100 meters = 75 paces
Steep hill terrain: 100 meters = 95 paces

Hope this helps. I use them often.
 
In the Army we did pace counts with loaded packs.

Set up a distance, 100 meters is what we used land Nav just makes more sense in meter and kilometers...but thats just the way I was taught. Next, count how many steps you take in the given distance. We only ever counted when our left foot hit the ground. Do it 3 times and the take the average.

With or without pack might not make much of a difference in pace count but we were always taught that it was more important to balance your pack. Make sure the load is centered. If your pack is not balanced you will tend to veer toward the heavy side, throwing you off course. Try to avoid carrying items in only one hand while walking....same concept as above, you will tend to favor the side you are carrying something in.
 
Yeah, I guess I should have added that those pace counts are by left foot only. Thanks, 12Bravo.

BTW, I know what an 11 Bravo is, so what is a 12Bravo? LOL
 
try it at night too.... I set up a land nav lab for my students on the football field... they determined length of pace, and had to make 5 waypoints using orienteering compasses to determine distant point of reference, but didn't need an actual pace counter because of the short distance.... they then donned "blackout" goggles which allowed them to see "down" for the compass, but not for a distant point of reference ... very different outcome in both distance traveled and direction
 
I changed the way I pace...now instead of one bead per 100 Meters or Yards; now I pull beads in the following manner to get more accurate pacing and to keep myself more engaged -

1 bead per xx number of paces usually around 19 paces for me (this is 35.2 yards or 105.6')

By doing so if I go 50 beads at 35.2 yards = 1,760 Yards or 5,280 feet or 1 mile

12.5 beads = 1/4 mile
25 beads = 1/2 mile
37.5 beads = 3/4 mile
50 beads = 1 mile

Now, I'm no longer relying on man made mechanical devices/beads to pace...I just use my fingers. Every time I walk one bead I roll my thumb into my palm on my left hand, for two beads I roll my left thumb under my left index finger etc, for three I go to under my middle finger etc.

At six I transition over to my right hand and now roll my right thumb over into my right palm etc. When I return back to my left hand for the second time my thumb goes on top of my fingers. When I pace 12.5 fingers/thumbs (I'll be back to my left hand with my thumb on top of my middle finger) I move a chunk of Willow to account for 1/4 mile so when I have 4 pieces in my right pocket I'm at one mile.

I've been also going to experimenting with going to 25 beads/fingers before moving one of two chunks of Willow (or pebble).

I know it sounds complicated, and sounds like it is too much effort or too risky for confusion. However, I am now no longer relying on man-made excuses for not pacing. I pace EVERYWHERE-EVERYDAY without having to have beads. I've become so accustom to this that I now do it at an unconscious competent level - everyday. I've tried to move this technique from a "use once in a great while - to an everyday lifestyle -everywhere". For shorter distances such as from the car of the large parking lot to the store and back...I don't need rocks/sticks or beads. I can remember I paced 32 paces etc and then just count them back on my fingers when I return.

Oh well...too much time on my hands I guess...
 
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...there are no hard and fast rules about adjusting pace count although I've found rules of thumb. Don't trust any formulas or typical percentage adustments either. don't use any charts! you need to calibrate your own paces. I chose to do 1/10 mile increments because I could use a handheld GPS to track 1/10 mile while I counted paces a bunch of times to get an average. The reason I chose 1/10 is that i use 1:24000 scale maps and my compass base has a scale for 1:24000 maps in 1/10 mile increments. When I'm doing shorter walks, I just assume 1/2 my normal paces for 1/20 (0.05 miles) and use the same compass baseplate scale to plot on the map. you follow me? your pace count on the street with no backpack is your optimum pace, your numbers will increase depending on trails, conditions, pack weight. its easy to adjust/check in the field by pace counting from say a trail head to a river where you can measure the distance on the map. knowing how far you travelled, and how many paces it took you will allow you to calc your pace count under those conditions. over time making adjustments becomes second nature.

Every once in a while when I'm off trail and I know I'm going to hit a trail or a river, I'll pace to calibrate. Lets say the map indicates I'll hit the trail in 0.35 miles. I'm pace counting and I hit the trail when I'd only tabulated -.25 miles. This means I was actually travelling further with each pace than I anticipated, so going foreward that day I should adjust accordingly, counting fewer steps per 1/10th (or 1/20). Conversely, if I did not hit the trail until I'd counted 0.45 miles in beads, that means I was travelling a shorter distance with each pace than I thought. I should adjust by counting more paces per 1/10 (or 1/20) from there on.

one other option to practice in different terrain, trail conditions, steep ups, steep downs, bushwhacks etc. is to watch the trip counter on your GPS while pace counting - whatch it tic 1/10th of a mile and see how many paces you took. Do it a couple times and average. take notes for future reference about that sort of terrain (and whether or not you were carrying a heavy load or not).

why do this if you have a GPS? gps goes, you are lost. I only use it to confirm position otherwise determined with good old map and compass (and sometimes pacing in featureless areas where I will not hit a baseline). GPS is helpful with getting better at your pace calibration as mentioned.
 
The best way to figure your pace count withe a pack, is to count your paces over a course with your typical expected load.
 
Tan and navy blue paracord ranger pace counter beads. A first time color combination request; instantly one of my favorites!!!
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I always found the gravity-oriented pace beads to eventually move around by themselves.

To avoid this I took my Silva Ranger compass, put a bootlace through it, then put nine beads on the bootlace.

I weat the compass around my neck.

Every 100m I would take a bead and run it from one side of the compass, around my neck, to the other. Once I hit nine beads on one side I would count 100m more and then move them all back to the other side and start over for a grand total of 1000m.

-Stan
 
My last time out, I didn't have any beads, but I did have a length of cordage. I kept paces on my fingers & tied a knot at every 10. At 100 I tied a double knot. This worked well for me.

I was on trail the whole time, so I could calibrate to known distances on my map... usually obvious markers/stream crossings/forks etc. Mostly I use pacing to give me an idea of how much time it will take me to get back to the trailhead in case SHTF or it starts to get dark. I haven't used them for much orienteering off trail.
 
Tuxdad,
Carrying a pack will not affect your pace count at first, but as we tire our strides become shorter and the heavier the load the quicker this happens.
Remember pace counting is only marginaly accurate and best used for short distances, one terrian feature to another then start over ie; this road to that creek bed, creek bed to that hill top etc.
12 Bravo's advice about weight centering was spot on.
Allan
 
Pace count is deferent for everyone and defers with terrain, and conditions. Too be accurate one has to count the deferent terrains and conditions and know when to use which one and that comes with experience, experienced is gained by doing. Paracordest's views match my experience. Hope this helps and dose not hurt
 
12 Bravo = Combat Engineer as stated above. No more 12B's that I no of, they all got changed to 21 Bravos.
 
That is a good idea. For what is worth my all paracord beads are individually made and tensioned. Unintended slide is not possible even if caught in heavy brush.
I always found the gravity-oriented pace beads to eventually move around by themselves.

To avoid this I took my Silva Ranger compass, put a bootlace through it, then put nine beads on the bootlace.

I weat the compass around my neck.

Every 100m I would take a bead and run it from one side of the compass, around my neck, to the other. Once I hit nine beads on one side I would count 100m more and then move them all back to the other side and start over for a grand total of 1000m.

-Stan
 
I am going to take a different approach to this, and ask you what is your intention with pacing?

The reason I ask that, is that I practiced pacing for quite a long time, and am decently efficient at it, but I use it for very, very specific conditions, which are not required often. I will get to those in a moment, but I want to comment about a few other things too.

Pacing and Terrain

As it has been mentioned here, your pace per given distance will change with altitude changes. What further complicates things is that if you are measuring on a map, you are measuring “as the crow flies” and need to take your elevation change into account as well. You can do this a couple different ways:

1) Determine your pace based on different grades. You are going to have to estimate the grade you are on, and your overall distance in going to be more of an estimate here than on flat ground. You can then figure out actual ground distance by map distance and elevation change and try to get an overall position estimate from both.

2) Forget about the elevation change and try, through experience to figure out how much 2D (map distance) you cover over various terrain. This takes lots of practice and there are tons of variables than can really only be minimized through tons of experience.

I used to teach a “Basic” land nav for a couple years. Even though it was “Basic” it consisted of 3 evenings in a class room, and 2 ½ days at a cabin in the woods doing field learning. Even after covering all that information, Pacing wasn’t covered in great detail. Here is why:

If you consider how much work either of the above two scenarios are, you have to realize most people are not going to put that much effort into it. Why? In general, most folks go to the woods, to enjoy the views, get some fresh air, see some bugs, plants or wildlife. Make it too much like work, and it is like work : ) Here is my take on the above situation.

If I am going up or down a hill, that means I actually have some terrain to work with, and that is contour lines. If I am going up and down a hill, why should I worry about pacing that out? Seriously, if you have enough terrain to “read” I am not going to bother counting and calculating and estimating. Terrain recognition is the most under-utilized skill in Land nav, IMO. The more you practice it, the better you get, the faster you get, the less inclined you are to want to pace count.

As I mentioned, I still pace count. But it is for very specific conditions, like:

1) No terrain to “read.” There are parts in the upper penisula of my state that are just large flat swamp :) Not a single contour line :) In those conditions, I would use dead reckoning or pace counting to estimate location, but then I would correct myself with the actual terrain once I finally encountered some :)

2) Navigating at night. I know you are supposed to tell people they shouldn’t navigate during darkness, but if you hunt, you almost have to do it. I have used pacing to get in and out of hunting blinds before and after light very often.

3) Finding something very specific. Me and my buddies were scouting some land, and we wanted to find an old logging road that was still on the map, but so overgrown it was unrecognizable. We knew from others that it was there, but had never been there ourselves. I measured the distance and bearing on the map, and was able to find it within a double pace of it. That was cool! : )

4) Navigating around object. If you go 90 degrees off course to get around an object, you can pace it to make sure you come back that same amount to get back on your original bearing. Even so, I rarely do this, as terrain nav will tell me where I am at. Usually if there is a feature you are needing to get around, it is easy to “read” that on the map.

So, that is my little theory on land nav and pace counting. Just as a little FYI, here is some other info that I personally do, which somewhat relates to pace counting.

- I create all my own topo maps for the areas I am in. There are a lot of reasons for doing that I have covered elsewhere, but one big advantage is putting your own grid on the maps.

- I put UTM grids on my topos. UTM allows you to really easily communicate your coordinates to others. But, it also has the benefit of being a direct measurement. Your grid is basically in meters. Because of that, you can quickly estimate distance by using the scales, and not taking a bunch of measurements off the map. VERY FAST! I am not talking about exact measurements. Just double checks and estimates to make sure everyhting makes sense.

- Because of UTM grids, I work in the metric system. I know my pacing in meters, not yards, feet or miles. The reason is it is easily scaleable and correlates directly to the UTM grids. I can look at the grid, estimate distance, and pace in that same measurement system. Do you know how many feet are in a degree? Feet in a mile? Feet per yards, and pace per yard and what that means to your “coordinate?” That is a lot of thinking and math :)

Just some things to think about.

Oh yeah....for the gentleman who practices pace counting and distance estimation every day, good for you!! :thumbup: I am seriously jealous. That is an awesome skill to have and one that requires a lot of dedication, and far more motivation that I have :)

B
 
Just a quick thought....alot of the advice here is sound...same methods I have used for Land Nav for inumerable courses in the Army. However, the finger method works all the way until you have to steady yourself by planting your hands on a tree after stepping on a hole, hitting a tree (nightime...don't laugh, it happens!) falling down an embankment etc. I have yet to have my Ranger Beads fall down on their own accord, even while moving through the nastiest crap Georgia and NC had/has to offer. I do like the idea of rolling beads from one side to the other up until a click but that only works for a click....when you are travelling for a few clicks....well, keeping track of "was that five or six clicks" has the possibility of cropping up. Pace between loaded and unloaded varies greatly! Trust me, humping a 50lb plus ruck versus a nice stroll with nothing but a LCE on is definitely noticable! Make sure you do your pace count on whatever terrain you plan on moving primarily and add a couple steps for uphill or downhill travel. Centering your load is clutch as well. The above comments concerning the importance of pace count and dead reckoning is spot on....especially when using the awesome Army issued maps that are at least ten years old that does not truly reflect the changes in topography. All I can think of for now! Oh, forgot to add, they also make glow in the dark Ranger beads now....definitely helps when you do not have to go by touch alone for nighttime travel!
 
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