Pacific Cutlery is BM

This is getting confusing. I just became interested in blades about three months ago so I've been reading evrything I can to catch up to you senior members. I look a pictures on Ebay/Bladeforum/Etc.. and I have a grand old time. So I found a very handsome Pacific Cutlery knife for sale on Ebay. Who are they and where can I get another blade like this? Four hours later it's Benchmade! (Well, sort of...)

This is some of the best entertainment I've had in a while. The hunt is the fun.
 
Pacific Cutlery is long out of business -- went bankrupt and were bought out by Benchmade. It was Pacific Cutlery who originally registered the trademark Bali-Song (with a diamond where I've placed a hyphen) and advertised their balisongs as "the only genuine Bali-Song" (with a diamond), by the way. Benchmade bought the trademark with the company and continued the deceptive advertising.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Are you sure that's right, Cougar ?
My take was that PC was headed by Les D'asis and had their knives made in Japan. They went under and Les started a new company :Benchmade. He retained the "Balisong" name and transferred it to the new company....family owned, I think.
I believe Benchmade started their own factory in Oregon and went from strength to strength.
The "deceptive" bit is a matter for conjecture. They registered a name no-one else had bothered to. But, I admit, it wasn't cool.
Of course, I have been wrong before....only once, mind you.

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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343

 
PC was in N. Hollywood and closed it's doors in May of 1987. Les De Asis owned it. Les then started Benchmade, also in California. In the fall of 1989 they moved to Clackamas Oregon then about 2-3 years ago moved to Oregon City.

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Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

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Whew! I'm glad to see I'm in good company. Regardless of ethics, etc... I wish BM still made some of the more interesting fixed blades that I've seen from Pacific Cutlery. Bowies are great but a recurve or Blackjack Mamba shaped blade(I don't know what the correct shape name would be) gives me another reason to buy a new knife. My wife can't argue that a new blade "shape" must do something different than all my other blades!! (Insert sly chuckle here)
 
BM did make a couple of recurved fixed blades early in their history. I have the large "Bushmaster" chopper. Wish I had acquired the "Delta Raider" belt knife while they were around.



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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343

 
Exactly Brian! The Bushmaster from PC is the blade for sale on Ebay. Tell me it's great and that I really need to buy it. Just a little positive reinforcement.
 
Upstartcrowe

It is great. And you really need to buy it.
smile.gif


I asked Mark McWillis when he ran the BM Forum and he said he THOUGHT the steel was 440C, but it was "before his time".
I haven't used it a real lot but I suspect that it is 440C..... Holds an edge and seems quite tough.
The sheath is ABS plastic and well designed...except that the glued-on belt loop snapped off when I sat on the ground a month or so back. No worries,,there are belt slots around the edges of the sheath.

If they are asking a reasonable price, get it.


Oops......just noticed you said "Bushmaster by PC"........mine is a Benchmade, USA.
I do seem to recall a PC model....the only difference I can recall was that the BM one had a false edge and the PC one didn't.
Don't know about steel, etc on the PC knife but I have owned other PC knives and liked them.
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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343



[This message has been edited by brian w edginton (edited 15 November 1999).]
 
The Delta Raider and Blackjack Mamba are almosr dead ringers for each other. Guess I'll have to dig them out of storage and look at them side by side.
 
Please do CK. I bought a Blackjack Mamba 7-l at the Great Western Show a few weeks ago. There's another company that's gone like PC. Anyway, the Mamba is sweet! So much so that I can't bring myself to use it. After finding out, on this BladeForum, about the convex grind and that finding another Blacjack is improbable, my little Mamba just sits and stares out the window while I take the CS TMaster, Ka Bar, Gerber, Buck, etc... out back to play with the wood and cardboard. Sometimes I sit and hold it while I read these posts. If I could only get another blade like it....the "Delta Raider"...hmmmmmm....
 
Any one interested--- I have several NIB Pacfic Cutlery fixed blades ("Fer-de-Lance" by David Steel) that For the right $ I'd sell. This knife was picture in one of the knife magazine about a year ago.
E-mail me if interested.
 
Hi
smile.gif
If anyone would like to see a picture of the Raider, just visit my website.

Dark Nemesis

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<A HREF="http://home.att.net/~dark-nemesis/" TARGET=_blank>
http://home.att.net/~dark-nemesis</A>
All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!! :)
 
Whether it's deceptive advertising ... it's legal by US law; just as legal as it would be for me to register Air Force Survival Knife and Air Force Survival Knives in a distinctive font as trademarks, and then advertise:

Beware of imitations! Only a Cougar Allen Air Force Survival Knife is a genuine Air Force Survival Knife!

Just because it has a hollow handle doesn't mean it's a genuine Air Force Survival Knife.

Cheap knock-offs have recently appeared on the market -- let the buyer beware!

That would be perfectly legal advertising (and I wouldn't have to sell a single knife to the Air Force to make it legal, either; cf. most of the "SEAL Knives" on the market.) Would it be deceptive advertising? Would newbies who don't know much about survival knives or false advertising law read that ad and be deceived into believing I originated the Air Force Survival Knife (no special font this time, you notice) and all the other hollow-handle knives on the market are cheap knock-offs of mine?

Quite a few people have been deceived into believing Pacific Cutlery and then Benchmade made the only genuine balisongs (no diamond this time, you'll notice). I take every opportunity to point out the basis behind that claim.

-Cougar Allen, the only maker of genuine Air Force Survival Knives :{)
 
Most companies, today, in the knife business and any other business, do not sell current products at a discount price to the public out of their factory. This would put them in the position of undercutting their dealers and dealers get very upset if they find themselves competing with their own supplier.
You can't just walk in the door and expect a factory tour at any smaller-size company. Who will take you on that tour? A small or medium-size company such as Benchmade does not have a staff of tour guides (as many larger companies do). You can't expect them to take some employee away from the work that was planned for them and reassign that person to hosting you.

Furthermore, there are safety issues to be considered. Benchmade's facility is small and they don't have the protected walks and observation areas that large factories often incorporate to accomdate tours.

Finally, Benchmade's production techniques are proprietary and you can't expect them to show them to every Tom, Dick, or Harry that walks through the door. Even if common production techniques are not exactly trade secrets, before taking the general public through, they need to insure that no unannounced new designs are out, for example.

I have been toured through Benchmade's facilities. It is impressive. I was especially impressed with the laser cutting machines. I didn't know that lasers could make such clean cuts through such hard, thick metal so quickly. My tour was pre-arranged weeks in advance and I was there picking up a custom made knife which can be seen at
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick/vault.html

BTW, the Bali-Song trademark was not owned by Pacific Cutlery nor is it owned by Benchmade today. It is the personal property of the De Asis' which is why it has been used at all of their companies.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
Hey CK! As you can see by looking at Dark Nemesis's "Delta Raider", it is not an identical twin of the BlackJack Mamba. Looks like less of a recurve and more of a dropped point? None the less, it sure is sweet. Back to my original thought. Does anyone make knives like that (DRaider, Mamba, BMaster, etc...) today? I am a newbie but I haven't seen anything around the net. Thanks for the family photo DM.
 
So much for my photographic memory.
smile.gif

I bought them at different times several years ago. I can't believe I never had them side by side.
 
Question for Gollnick, Cougar, or anyone who can help:

In 1987 I passed through England on my way to a contract in central Africa. I went out shopping for a few knives to take south with me. I went into a knife shop and bought, what I was told was, a Pacific Cutlery Bali-Song Custom. It has a 5" weehawk blade and is 11" overall length. Blade thickness at the spine is 3/16" . The only markings are the butterfly with "Bali-Song" on one side and, on the opposite side, "Bali-Song U.S.A."

The handles are heavy stainless, drilled with single, countersunk holes seperated by much smaller (3/32" ?) double holes. The handle mounting pins are flush and all but invisible. The fit, finish and quality of the knife are excellent.

The knife came in a black, ballistic nylon type sheath with the butterfly emblem on the flap.

Now my question. From the above description can you tell me if this is a PC or BM made knife? Also, there is a dash (-) between the words Bali and Song, not a diamond.

Any help would be appreciated.

Blackdog
 
Purchased in '87 it would probably be Pacific Cutlery. It's a custom. The length gives it away. BM never did a 5" Weehawk production.

If it is in mint condition today, that knife is worth about $400-$500.

What has not been mentioned in this thread before now is that before 1985 there was Bali-Song Cutlery. Bali-Song became Pacific in about '85 and Pacific became Benchmade in about '87. I say "about" because both transitions were blurred. It's hard to say exactly when Pacific became Benchmade because, in the interest of thrift, everything wasn't immediately changed.





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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
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