Packs - Internal vs External Frame

D

Darteres

Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
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I've been looking around for a good 3 day pack for hiking/camping. Everywhere I snoop around, people seem to be going with internal frame packs now. What happened to the external frames? Sure, I see them from time to time, but almost nobody recommends them (that I've seen). I grew up hiking with the BSA external pack. Carried it for years all the way up through Eagle scout and hiking Philmont. What am I missing about the internal system?

Edit: Forgot to say that I'm going to be going with my son who is 6 and as such I, will be carrying most all of the gear.
 
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Most of the internal ones are lighter. I think that's the main factor. Also the size.

Most External ones are pretty large. I can go 3 days in a 2100 cu in pack but the smallest internal I know of for an adult is 3900?
 
My belief is that the current style of internal frame packs are designed to keep the load tighter to your body than the old style external frames. They should handle a load better and improve your control and balance. I've had a bit of experience with both types, and I think internals are more reliable overall as well. Another benefit is lighter weight.

As for 3-day packs, I would check out Gregory and Osprey. I bought a new Gregory Z65 this year, and so far it is good. It holds everything I need it to, and only weighs about 4.5 lbs. Their next larger model is the Baltoro - a bit heavier, but more space.

It is also worth mentioning what gear you will be bringing on 3-day trips. If you have a tarptent & quilt, you can get away with a much smaller pack. I still bring a roomy 2-man tent and have a bulky sleeping bag/kitchen.
 
I like external frames for carrying a heavy load over maintained trails. I have an old A16 with a frame extension that comes forward by your hips. It places the waist belt pivot point at the center of your hip joint and works great. However, I now carry a lighter load and generally use a Go-Lite Gust frameless pack.

If you get an internal frame, I can also vouch for eomeo's recommendation of Gregory products. Prior to the Go-Lite I bought one for ski mountaineering, etc. and it is very solid.

DancesWithKnives
 
I like an external frame only for the versatility of having a frame without a pack. It is nice if you are packing out large and/or odd shaped items. Lash and go. A friend of mine has a frame with a load shelf that is awesome in that he doesn't even use a pack. He packs what he needs in three stuff sacks and lashes them to the frame. The frame has a system that allows him to lash the bags without accessory straps. Much lighter than the same setup with the associated pack.

I have read that internals keep the load closer to you and more balanced, but I have never had any problems with my external. An external pack may keep you a bit less sweaty as they do not hug your back like an internal frame pack does.
 
Wow- you're making your 6 year old carry most of the gear?

But seriously, eomeo pretty much nailed this one. Have fun- camping with your son- priceless!
 
Darteres said:
I've been looking around for a good 3 day pack for hiking/camping. Everywhere I snoop around, people seem to be going with internal frame packs now. What happened to the external frames? Sure, I see them from time to time, but almost nobody recommends them (that I've seen). I grew up hiking with the BSA external pack. Carried it for years all the way up through Eagle scout and hiking Philmont. What am I missing about the internal system?

Edit: Forgot to say that I'm going to be going with my son who is 6 and as such I, will be carrying most all of the gear.
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This is an hours-long topic that I have minutes to reply to. I have hundreds if not thousands of miles on multiple internal and external frames, and all have their ups and downs. A good external frame has hundreds of load carrying options with basic and improvised materials such as chordage. Hauling wood on a naked external frame, or quartered game, or water, or anything really becomes a cinch without wrecking your bag. That is the single largest plus an external frame has. They also tend to keep some air between you and the bulk of the bag, I usually don't sweat as bad when wearing an external because of the air flow between my back and the bag. However externals can be hard on newbies, between the rub at the lumbar and the tension on the shoulders there's alot less contact between you and the pack and tend to cause more applied pressure at those spots. I love my Mountainsmith Maverick for an internal, it's not a 400 dollar fancy Osprey custom molded pack, it doesn't have to be. It's a simple aluminum stay, flexible plastic system that tends to conform easily to the contours of my back. It cuts my felt weight in half. It is also very low profile, and still supports all the necessary weight with ease. I've carried 100+ pounds in that pack without a hitch. Don't get me started on the awesome organization because I will go on for days...
 
Lighter, and more stable/comfortable/balanced, especially when scrambling, because it keeps the load closer to your back.

P.S. If you're looking for a pack, check out this one http://www.rei.com/product/765140
I LOOOOVE mine! Very reasonably priced, and (for me) much more comfortable than all the other packs I tried on with weight in them. Even more than the much more expensive, Gregory Z65 pack which came in second. Not a super light weight pack, but at a touch under 4lbs. it's respectable, and it makes carrying 35lbs. a breeze.
My wife has the women's version http://www.rei.com/product/780518 and she LOOOVES hers too! She's only 5' 115lbs. and she carries 30lbs no problem.

All that being said, if you are looking for packs try them on with weight in them. You will learn a lot about each pack after spending a good half hour with each of them loaded.
 
IMHO the only reason to use an external frame pack is if you're hauling more then 120lbs and / or need to be able to strap odd shaped objects like water cans or spare barrel bag or mortar tubes to the frame i.e. MILITARY USE.

For non-military use purchase an internal frame pack manufactured by a company with a good reputation and you should be fine.

I am partial to Kifaru and any pack based on the Mystery Ranch NICE frame.
 
Actually, it is hard to find an internal frame pack that has the features of my external frame pack (Jansport Carson) that weigh less. I have looked.

Internals will carry the load closer to your back, and are better for balance, especially when scrambling off trail. Externals are cooler (a huge factor for me). Try both and see what you like better.
 
I prefer an external frame pack. With a full (Winter) payload it runs about 30lbs. The versitility won me over decades ago. I know many people hate them, but a medium sized ALICE pack is the bee's knees for me.

Rick
 
When I was in my younger years and did alot more weed walkin', My preference was for internal frame packs, I liked the ability to customize my storage area and keep large or long items inside the pack, like my breakdown .22 rifle.

The lower center of gravity and the multiple adjustment points made the internal frame infinitely adjustable so I could tweak it as needed without stoppin'.

If I needed a pack frame I would make one, or a sled to drag behind me.

I do have to agree with one of the earlier posters, they both, (internal and external frame packs) have their own pros and cons which just goes to show that one pack really can't do it all the best, right tool for the job right? :)
 
I've always used an internal frame Kelty. This year, I switched to an external Jansport and I think it's more comfortable for the load I carry which is about 30 lbs when full with food and water.
 
Like shag carpet and disco, they're gone. They left the scene in the late 1980s. Internals are lighter, more streamlined, easier to pack and have more volume. I spend a lot of time on trails and it's a rare day when I spot one. Interestingly, I've read that externals carry heavy weight better ... or at least they did when internals were relatively new on the scene.
 
I snagged a official issue MOLLE rucksack with the sleep system "pouch" and everything for $65 shipped. I love it. It might be a bit bigger and more unweildy then some internal frame packs but I can carry EVERYTHING, its comfy, and very customizable. For 3+ day trips, I wouldn't grab anything else.
 
this is an age old question :)

my suggestion is to look at your gear and how you want to stow it for maximum comfort and ease of packing/unpacking. also test your pack before you buy. most places have weights you can put in the packs to simulate how it carries weight.

have a great trip!! :)
 
Magnussen said:
I prefer an external frame pack. With a full (Winter) payload it runs about 30lbs. The versitility won me over decades ago. I know many people hate them, but a medium sized ALICE pack is the bee's knees for me.

Rick
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Once you get 120 pounds in em you learn to hate em REAL fast. I literally had a callous layer across my lower back from the rub of the kidney pads... the MR NICE frame is out of this world, but it also costs 600 dollars. Mine is in the closet waiting for Armageddon, it's loaded with about 150 pounds of survival and combat gear.
 
jvisconti said:
I snagged a official issue MOLLE rucksack with the sleep system "pouch" and everything for $65 shipped. I love it. It might be a bit bigger and more unweildy then some internal frame packs but I can carry EVERYTHING, its comfy, and very customizable. For 3+ day trips, I wouldn't grab anything else.
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These are superb packs, a bit bulky but when we switched from ALICE, life was good :)
 
PayetteRucker said:
Once you get 120 pounds in em you learn to hate em REAL fast. I literally had a callous layer across my lower back from the rub of the kidney pads... the MR NICE frame is out of this world, but it also costs 600 dollars. Mine is in the closet waiting for Armageddon, it's loaded with about 150 pounds of survival and combat gear.
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150lbs of "Bug Out" gear... wow Payette! Maybe you should refer to it as "Lug Out" gear. I hear they'll go after the slowest, first.

Lighten up will ya?

I think I would hate any bag with 130lbs in it. That is an unrealistic load, IMO. Aside from hauling a quartered elk out of the woods.

Rick
 
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