Padre Observations & Gaucho Comparison

[Comprehensivist]

Padre Observations & Gaucho Comparison

Intro / History::

The Padre was first designed and built in March 2011. There are two shown in fotki from that timeframe.

Here is the first one. The black handle with white pins and cross etched on the blade are very fitting for a "Priest's" knife.






Here is the second one:




Like many people on this forum, I want to have a low maintenance Fiddleback knife that I can enjoy using every day. That means a stainless kitchen knife to me since I make food daily. That is way more often than I get outside to hike, camp, or do bushcraft type wood cutting with a typical Fiddleback knife. With that goal in mind, I can say with certainty that there is no other Fiddleback model I have pursued longer or harder than a Padre a CPM 154 with a synthetic handle. With only a handful or so in existence until very recently, this has been a long pursuit. I tracked down a couple of the originals, but the owners were unwilling to sell or trade them despite some significant offers from me. I can’t blame them for holding onto those rare knives.

I have a Gaucho in 3/32” CPM 154 that has filled the food prep role nicely so far. It has been my most used Fiddleback for that reason. I reviewed it very favorably here about a year ago.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...dleback-Gaucho-Review?highlight=Gaucho+Review

The only feature that I wished was different about the Gaucho was that it would have more finger clearance to allow me to use the full length of the cutting edge and not bang my knuckles on the cutting board. At the end of that review, I pleaded with Andy to bring back the Padre since I assumed that the longer and taller blade meant there would be more finger clearance too.

My search for a Padre finally reached its conclusion in February when I received one in 3/32” CPM 154 as part of an epic trade deal with a good forum friend. The one I got has a Black G10 handle with white pins reminiscent of the first one. It has a tumbled finish and trinity pin-out in lieu of the cross etch on the blade.








Specifications::

Note: The length measurements referenced below use the top front edge of the handles as a starting point. That means handle length is from that location to the farthest point rearward and blade length is from there to the tip. The handle height measurements use the lowest respective lowest points of the handle front, middle, and back, to the relative highest point above that location.

OAL: 9.371”
Blade Length: 5.176”
Handle Length: 4.195”
Steel & Thickness: .105” (Note: 3/32” with mill finish)
Tang Type: SFT (“Skeletonized Full Tang”)
Grind: Convex (with tumbled finish)
Handle Material: Black G10 over black with white pinstripes & pins
Weight (oz.): 6.1
Blade Height @ Ricasso: 1.469”
Handle Measurements @ Front: 1.011” High, .697” Wide, & 2.970” Circumference
Handle Measurements @ Palmswell: 1.056” High, .766” Wide, & 3.374” Circumference
Handle Measurements @ Back: .753” High, .709” Wide, & 2.687” Circumference
Distance from Front Edge of Handle to Center of Palmswell: 2.108"
Clearance to Cutting Board at Bottom of Palmswell: .394”
Distance from Front Edge of Handle to Balance Point: .830”





Comparison Photos::

The handle on the Padre is .413” shorter than the Gaucho.

Back-to-back:




Lined-up on the pommel end:




Lined-up on the front of the handles:




Side view:




Stacked view:




The handle on the Padre is .095” taller and .013” thicker at the palm swell than the Gaucho.




I was disappointed to find that the finger clearance with the back of edge blade down is slightly less on the Padre (.394”) than it is on the Gaucho (.425") despite the taller blade on the Padre.






In-Hand Photos & Comments:

This is close to the regular grip I use on kitchen knives.




This is the modified grip I use for kitchen knives with minimal finger clearance to the cutting board.




I asked my wife to hold the knife for the next two pictures.




She does not have enough finger clearance to rock all the way to the back of the blade before her fingers contact the cutting board.

 

[Comprehensivist]

Summary & Other Commentary:

My thoughts after comparing the two knives are as follows:
1) I prefer the longer and taller blade on the Padre.
2) I prefer the longer handle on the Gaucho.
3) It’s a toss-up on the finish. I prefer the grippier handle feel of the tumbled finish on the Padre, but I prefer the satin blade grind & Fiddle-texturing on the Gaucho.
4) Neither knife has as much finger clearance as I would like for cutting board use, but a slight edge goes to the Gaucho on this.

In the end, I consider these knives essentially equal for their intended role as a kitchen utility knife. I always thought that a Padre would replace my Gaucho some day. That is not going to be the case. I may be in the minority with this opinion, but I prefer the Gaucho. I am sure that this conclusion was influenced by lots of use with the Gaucho. The fact of the matter is that I have not used the Padre because I have been undecided if I am going to keep it or sell it. That is why this is an “observations & comparison” thread rather than a “review.”

I want to emphasize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Padre. My knife in particular is a beautiful example of materials and craftsmanship. The only problem I have is admitting that I had unrealistic expectations for what certain features would be. Specifically, I “assumed” that the handle on the Padre would be as long or longer than the Gaucho and have more finger clearance. Like the old saying goes, when you “assume”, you make an “ass” of “u” and “me” The “u” part doesn’t apply in this case, but the “me” part certainly does. The fact of the matter is that I could have easily known what to anticipate from the Padre if I followed the clues and stuck with my usual objective / analytical approach rather than be emotionally swayed by what I hoped it would be. If you will indulge me a slight diversion, I’ll explain…

In my career, I am the quality manager for a decent size aerospace job shop that does precision machining, grinding, honing & lapping to produce piece parts and small assemblies to very tight tolerances. Some of the assemblies we produce have detail parts match fitted together with clearances as tight as .00002 +/-.00001 (yeah that’s millionths.) It’s difficult stuff to make and measure accurately. One of the more challenging aspects of my job is when a customer returns a part to us saying that “it doesn’t work in the next assembly” even though no dimensional defect was defined. At that point I have to start by measuring the part(s) all over and making observations to determine if a defect slipped through our inspection system or whether the customer modified or damaged the part(s) after receipt. Throughout that process, I repeatedly go back to the blueprint as the master document to verify the design requirements and solve the puzzle.

Given that background, you probably recognize that I use a similar measurement and observation process (maybe too much so?) in how I review and comment on various Fiddleback models. I am embarrassed to admit that I missed studying the original blueprint in regard to the Padre. The very first photo of this thread shows Andy’s original sketch for the Padre on graph paper. In case you aren’t familiar with graph paper, it is a series of ¼” squares that helps with drawing to scale. The sketch of the Padre runs six block wide (1-1/2”) by thirty-seven blocks long (9-1/4”.) All of the actual measurements of my knife coincide almost exactly with that sketch. If I had studied the sketch more thoroughly, I would have known what my expectations should be for handle length and finger clearance rather than what I wanted them to be. That is my confession. Please forgive me Padre.

If I had the chance to draw my own sketch to tweak the design a little, I would do two things. First, I would increase the handle length to 4.600” to allow a little more maneuvering room. Second, I would add an upward tilt to the handle similar to what Andy did with the Toboggan to bump up the finger clearance to .850” minimum. These changes would add to the cost by requiring a larger material blank and more stock removal to get to the finished shape. Of course the final result wouldn’t be a Padre anymore either. Sticking with the same religious theme, perhaps calling it "Monsignor or Cardinal" would be an appropriate name to distinguish its enhanced status. After all, Bishop is already taken. It's too bad I missed out on Andy's custom order period by five or six years.


Final Thoughts:

It has been just over two weeks ago as I write this that I had to put my beloved Jessie “J-Dog” to sleep. I spent the better part of the last twenty-four hours before that hanging out with her all I could. At one point in the day we had our final Fiddleback knife time together to let her weigh in on the Padre. She looked at the knife and admired the black and gray colors with the white accents which she approved of because those were her colors. Beyond that, her interest and energy were waning…




The message that I got from her after that and throughout the day was, “Sometimes you have to make painful decisions that are the right decision. Don’t worry though, it’s OK to let go and say goodbye.” That day was about the most painful goodbye in my life.




I am glad that J-Dog was there to share the end of my two year quest for a Padre. I could just keep it as an unused rare model, but that is not what it was designed for and I am not a collector at heart. So as J-Dog let me know, it’s OK to say goodbye and let it go…

Phil


P.S. - Thanks Peter for your editorial comments that made this write-up better.

 

[prom52]

Phil:

You are quite welcome my friend. It's an honor to play a small part along with you & Jessie.....Melissa too !

Peter

 

[Gusbuster]

Very informative observations and comparisons post Phil. Thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

 

[VANCE]

Phil
That was a great comparison post. I knew the outcome of this thread before it was posted based on our telephone conversation a few weeks ago. But i still feel sorry it didnt meant your expectations after such a long wait.

The only thing that i do take satisfaction is J-dog was able to take part in this thread. I know that that meant a lot to you.

RIP Jessie

 

[_Westy_]

Phil thanks for sharing - I know all too well the pain of having to make that decision. Deep down you know it's the right decision but it sure doesn't make it any easier.

Someone sent me this when I lost my Harley dog and I hope it's ok that I'm re-posting it here...

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...

RIP Jessie.

 

[Mistwalker]

Thank you for the comparison and photos Phil! This is something I had been needing to see. All in all, the Gaucho just replaced the Padre on my to-get list because I make food daily too, even when I am out on hikes

 

[dogbone11]

Thanks Phil for another excellent model “observations & comparison” thread. And thanks especially for including J-Dog's final Fiddleback knife contribution. I am still filled with remorse about J-Dog's passing. I have to admit I was teary-eyed most of the day after your tribute post. Still haven't gotten over it.
With regards to kitchen knives it appears to me (only from picture analysis not use) that one model from the Fiddleback family that would provide adequate finger clearance would be Allen's cleaver-like Matador if available in 3/32 or thinner stock. Still might be too heavy and bulky for everyday kitchen use however. I would sure like to try one.

 

[willic]

Phil,

I am sorry for your loss, my friend!!! I type this with tears in my eyes! You and J-Dog have been part of this forum since my early Fiddleback days, When I think Fiddleback, J-Dog always comes to mind! I love your write-ups, your pictures, and what you and J-Dog bring to this forum. I am so sorry, my friend! All the way in Virginia, I will always remember J-Dog in association with Fiddlebacks! Thank you for sharing your wonderful dog with us! God Speed, Jessie! You have brought more enjoyment to people than you will ever know!

-Will

 

[SA Condor]

Thanks for the thoughtful comparison! I do like the longer blade on the Padre. Just out of curiosity, what is the measurement of the width of your hand? I know you posted it before, but I can't remember here. I think the shorter handle on the Padre wouldn't be as big of a deal for someone with a narrower hand. I'm curious, because a Padre has long been on my wish list too.