Panantukan Book Review

M

Myers

Joined
Jan 3, 2000
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103
This is Rick Faye's newly released book:
"A Guide to Panantukan." He subtitles it "For use as a Training Journal and Step by Step guide", which is pretty accurate. It's right at 100 pages and spiral bound. Likely a desk-top publishing job...no color, no glossy pages...to keep down costs. But lots of pictures! This manual will be more useful for someone with a knowledge of the subject that wants to expand their repertoire, or for someone currently studying Panantukan that wants a reference to aid in memory and retention. It assumes that you already have the basics of western boxing down and goes instead into the FMA "add-ons." That's not to say that a beginner wouldn't learn plenty, just that some of the descriptions and photos can be rather vague and hard to figure out if you don't know where he's going. The book covers some of the basic concepts from FMAs, guntings, elbows, scoops, jab-catch/glove drills, focus glove drills, basic body manipulations, a few basic joint locks/wrenches, some energy drills/hubud, etc. John Machado is his training partner in some of the pictures. The picture quality is not the same as you'll find in the typical glossy-pages books you can buy off the shelf. But you will have no problem seeing what he's doing. I learned a few things that I hadn't thought of before and said "hey, why didn't I think of that!" There were also a few places where I thought "why didn't he cover...." or "I wonder why he left out...." Maybe some of those things are being reserved for a Vol. 2. :-) Keep in mind that Panantukan tends to exist along a spectrum with western boxing at one end and Kali Empty-hands methods at the other. One can choose to work more from one end of the spectrum than the other. If you have your boxing basics down and want to make them a little more "martial", then this book will provide you with lots of ideas and "add-ons." If you know Kali or Silat and wonder how it can function from a boxing foundational power structure, then this book will be valuable to you as well. It cost me $20 plus $3 shipping. If you're interested, check it out at http://www.mnkali.com

Keith

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"Walk softly and carry a big stick!"
Teddy Roosevelt
 
Hi Donna!
History of Panantukan.....its a bit sketchy and a little controversial. Rick Faye wisely avoids the issue by just not mentioning it in his book. As I see it there are basically 3 versions that go something like this:
1. Panantukan is a historical method that goes way back in the Phillipines. It is empty hand work based upon the use of a knife, and therefore emphasizes evasiveness and lots of movement. Around the turn of the century western boxers were exposed to Panantukan and picked up on its biomechanics. This is said to be responsible for the transition from the old bare-knuckle style of boxing to what we now consider "modern" boxing. I think this version of the story is meant to make Panantukan sound more "traditional" and "respectable." But I have done some research on western boxing and there are all kinds of problems and holes in this version. I don't find much at all to support it.

2. Panantukan existed in the Phillipines in a general sense if not outright, and had a similar powerbase as western boxing because again...it was based upon knife-fighting and evasiveness. As western boxing became more and more popular throughout the world, Panantukan players recognized the similaries and began to incorporate western boxing into what they were doing. This version is more plausible, but has some problems of its own. The biggest being that you just don't find much Panantukan in the Phillipines (or so I've been told).

3. What seems to me to be the most likely and the most plausible version is this: In more recent times, players that had learned both FMAs and western boxing came up with a general approach that combined both and came to be called Panantukan. I think one of the major contributors was likely Lucky Lucaylucay. He and his father were both competitive boxers in Hawaii. They of course also knew FMAs. Guro Inosanto credits Lucky Lucaylucay with introducing Panantukan to his academy. I think it is likely that he was one of...if not the...key creator of the method. Again, as I stated before, its not a big stretch. Start with a thorough grounding in western boxing, and then start adding on principles and methods from Kali empty hands...limb destructions, zoning, body manipulations, knees, elbows, etc.....and you've got Panantukan. I had a pretty long exchange/debate/argument with a guy on rec.martial-arts recently who claimed that Panantukan did not exist and was just a sham put forth by charlatans. His main reasoning was that you don't find it in the Phillipines, and that the term "Panantukan" simply refers to western boxing. He even quoted from a Tagalog dictionary. I pointed out that regardless of its status in the Phillipines, it is a part of the curriculum of several of the biggest FMA academies in the US, has had 2 different videos and a book produced that cover it. This makes it legitimate here in the states. It doesn't matter to me one bit if no one is doing it in the Phillipines. I got the last word in, whether I convinced him or not. :-) It seems to me that Panantukan was just a natural evolution for FMAs in the west. For westerners with an actual background in boxing, or even with no background other than growing up in our culture and seeing it all their lives, Panantukan comes more naturally and is the ideal way to make their boxing more "martial." From the perspective of FMA instructors, Panantukan is an excellent way to attract and appeal to westerners who might not otherwise be interested in martial arts. I think that too often Panantukan gets lost in a curriculum that includes JKD, Thai Boxing, Silat, etc. Most only know of it from vague references when training. They might go through a series of motions and the instructor comments "this comes from Panantukan," and then they're off and doing a JKD drill. Panantukan deserves to be taught in an organized fashion in its own right, separately and independant from the rest. I do Panantukan. I don't do JKD, Thai Boxing, etc. There are similarities, but Panantukan has a flavor all its own that I like and seek to develop. I think I've rambled on long enough.

Keith

------------------
"Walk softly and carry a big stick!"
Teddy Roosevelt
 
Hi All!

I started this thread several years ago. I have a new moniker now because I took an extended break from the forums and forgot my original screen name and password. :-)

I just wanted to point out that since I did the review on Guro Rick Faye's book, he has come out with 2 training DVDs on Panantukan that follow is book and are as equally as good. I highly recommend them.

Ron Balicki has just recently come out with a series of DVDs on the subject. I have them on order and am looking forward to seeing them.

Anyone want to talk about Panantukan? :-)

Keith
 
Hello Keith,

Thanks for an interesting prospective of Panatukan, I believe the later explanation to be very close to the logical path of development.

Ted Lucaylucay was a good friend of mine, during his Northwest visits he emphasized lot's of referencing to his Father's teachings. I believe his Stick Boxing strategies as well as his Blade to Boxing video series reflect his insight and command of solid theory.

Professor Leonard Trigg also is a serious instructor of Panatukan via Guru Ted's teachings. Additionally, Professor Trigg's personal foundational arts are balanced in "Old School Classical American Boxing," a complete different animal in and of itself. Honestly, having been schooled in different prospectives of boxing since the 60's, I have yet to meet to many individuals whom also study the martial arts to be so refined in the diverse strategies of boxing. Those who have attended Master Chai's Thai training camps in Portland Oregon would agree to Leonard Trigg's amazing skill base.

Not a push for Trigg or Lucaylucay merely a reflective view of evolution and relative connection to what could and can be directly credited to the FMA. Trigg himself has instructed Dan Inosanto in many of his classical drills and extended Panatukan strategies. Professor Trigg also puts it in the ring,, many of his fighters are active in N.W. Professional Bouts.

Back to why and how it is FMA relative... Bottom line, American's are progressive in nature, I have heard nothing but good things about Rick Faye and his efforts to share the art, so kudos’ there as well. Tracing historical references directly to the Philippines are somewhat difficult, I to have heard via my sources questionable links of validity to Panatukan.

Purity may not be as important as acknowledgement, offering credit to the culture that provided the strategies and progressive path is equally important as the initial thought process of relativity in movement via cross referencing of arts.

Whether purists/traditionalists agree or not,,, credit can and should be acknowledged, either way, someone will always piss or moan, especially on forums where written words rarely clarify physical skill cross over.

Additional Panatukan options include a recent DVD release of Jim Keating, although I have not reviewed the material I am very familiar with Jim's technical skill base,,, most importantly, progressive material that pushes the envelope opens the door for more innovation,,,

So is Panatukan pure FMA? As Professor Presas always said,,, "It does not matter, Just make it your own!" Simple translation, train more,,, talk less,,,,

Kelly S. Worden
 
Boxing has been a popular Filipino pastime for many generations. When my dad was a kid growing up in the urban streets of Manila, he used to "box" with the local kids out in the streets. These were often crude, often wild-swinging punching matches. However, despite what appeared to be chaos, my father would tell me that there were some standard techniques to be learned and applied in the fights. The one move he relied on was known as the "Bolo Punch"...which isn't to be confused with the wide swinging uppercut. According to my father, it was basically a hammerfist strike...a blow delivered with the base of the fist. I find it interesting that in many FMA empty hand methods, this Bolo Punch is a very common technique, even though it goes by different names depending on the system. My father told me that while many kids would just wildly swing, there were also a great deal of kids who would fight with sophisticated movement, footwork, and body mechanics.

Anyways, back to the question: Is Panantukan pure FMA? As a student and practitioner of FMA, I find the similarities between FMA knife dueling and Boxing to be more than just a coincidence. There will always be critics, but as a person who learned how to Box in the Philippines, and who also Boxed here in the States, there is certainly a difference between the ways Filipinos Box and Westerners Box. Regardless of the origins, Boxing has always been a pastime in the Philippines. As with any fighting art, when methods and techniques are exchanged over time, the art will develop and change as well.

Also, Boxing in the Philippines is known as "Suntukan". From my understanding, the term "Panantukan" came about as a way to differentiate the term "Suntukan" from "Shotokan"...the Japanese style of Karate, because people would often get confused when hearing the term Suntukan. In other words, it was an attempt to truly distinguish the art from other arts popular at the time.

Just wanted share my thoughts.

~Mike
 
just wanted to add...i don't know the validity of the word "panatukan" (i don't have a Filipino dictionary) but you can clearly see the closeness in relation from the word "suntukan" meaning "boxing" or "to fight with hands" the word "pangsuntukan" means "for fighting with hands" "suntok" is the Tagalog rootword meaning "punch". other tagalog words that mean the same thing would be...buntalan, sapakan, bakbakan, babag or babagan...not here to argue semantics, just sharing some info that might be found interesting. :)

as a practioner, i think the art evolved naturally well with the influence of western style of boxing.
 
---Greetings Datu Worden! Thanks for chiming in on the topic. :cool:

Thanks for an interesting prospective of Panatukan, I believe the later explanation to be very close to the logical path of development.

---I appreciate you giving some validation to my thoughts. I have a lot of respect for your opinions and perspective.

Ted Lucaylucay was a good friend of mine, during his Northwest visits he emphasized lot's of referencing to his Father's teachings. I believe his Stick Boxing strategies as well as his Blade to Boxing video series reflect his insight and command of solid theory.

---I was lucky enough to attend a couple of seminars with Guro Ted before his untimely passing. One of them was on his "stick boxing."

Professor Leonard Trigg also is a serious instructor of Panatukan via Guru Ted's teachings.

---I'm glad to hear you speak of him in the present tense. I thought I had read something years ago about him being killed in an airplane crash or something along those lines.

Additionally, Professor Trigg's personal foundational arts are balanced in "Old School Classical American Boxing," a complete different animal in and of itself.

---I wonder if you mean by "Old School" the era that included Dempsey? I managed to get a copy of the book Jack Dempsey wrote and discovered lots of good info that has helped my Panantukan.


Purity may not be as important as acknowledgement, offering credit to the culture that provided the strategies and progressive path is equally important as the initial thought process of relativity in movement via cross referencing of arts.

---Absolutely! Whether or not the Panantukan disseminated by the Inosanto Academy is "historically" sound and can be found in the Phillipines itself, it is still distinctively "Filipino".


Additional Panatukan options include a recent DVD release of Jim Keating, although I have not reviewed the material I am very familiar with Jim's technical skill base,,, most importantly, progressive material that pushes the envelope opens the door for more innovation,,,

---I've read about his new DVD recently and have been planning on ordering it. For others reading this thread.....James Keating has produced a new video called "Panantukan Knife" that, according to the promo material, shows how to work knife skills on the speed bag. It should be very interesting! :)

So is Panatukan pure FMA? As Professor Presas always said,,, "It does not matter, Just make it your own!" Simple translation, train more,,, talk less,,,,

---Yep! It works for me and I enjoy it! That's what counts! :thumbup:

Keith
 
Hi Mike!

When my dad was a kid growing up in the urban streets of Manila, he used to "box" with the local kids out in the streets. These were often crude, often wild-swinging punching matches. However, despite what appeared to be chaos, my father would tell me that there were some standard techniques to be learned and applied in the fights.

---That brings to mind the recent boxing match between Mayweather and De La Hoya. On the undercard was a flyweight boxer from Manila named Battista. I was the most impressed with him than any of the other fighters during the entire event....including the big names! He was a fighter on the streets of Manila as your dad describes until he was "discovered" by a boxing trainer. Now he is one of the "up and coming" fighters in his weight class. It would be interesting to know if he has any FMA background.


as a person who learned how to Box in the Philippines, and who also Boxed here in the States, there is certainly a difference between the ways Filipinos Box and Westerners Box.

---I don't doubt that at all. You can see differences in how Americans box compared to European fighters as well.


Also, Boxing in the Philippines is known as "Suntukan". From my understanding, the term "Panantukan" came about as a way to differentiate the term "Suntukan" from "Shotokan"...the Japanese style of Karate, because people would often get confused when hearing the term Suntukan. In other words, it was an attempt to truly distinguish the art from other arts popular at the time.

---I have heard that as well, so maybe there is something to it! ;)

Keith
 
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