Pantographic knife: what's the gimmick?

[MatthewVanitas]

As I was driving to Nashville, I saw the billboard for Smokey Mountain Knife Works (a massive knife mega-store, online and brick/mortar). Having a little time to kill, I dropped in.

I promised myself I wouldn't splurge too much, but figured I'd pick up one or two cheap little novelties if they turned up. After covetting the RAT-3 and Entrek knives, I dropped a $5 on a United Cutlery copy of a Pantographic paratroop knife, just for yucks.

http://www.gungfu.com/pics_info_pages/knives_tactical_paratrooper.jpg

It's a cunning little design, and fun to play with. The CCC execution isn't great, but it works overall.

However, now I'm perplexed as to why these were developed in the first place. It's not particularly fast to deploy, and doesn't seem notably strong. Why did they give these to paratroops, instead of giving them a fixed, balisong, or jack-knife?

 

[Larry S.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantographic_knife

 

[rebeltf]

I have one of those I bought years ago from somewhere , can't recall who made it.
More of a novelty than anything else I guess.

I always thought it was an impracticle design.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantographic_knife

I did look it up before asking, just wasn't convinced by the statment:

The pantographic knife is very strong when compared to most other folding knife designs, being joined at several points and along several planes - this increases the force required to break the blade away from the handle."

Not to be a bali-fanboy, but a balisong is equal in advantage, but doesn't have the complexity of the pantographic linkage.

Even if the originals are far smoother than the UC repros (which are fun toys), I don't see them being particularly easy to open one-handed. I'd hate to try to open one whilst struggling with a chute.

 

[GarageBoy]

The edge also runs into the opening when you open it

 

[tirod3]

I challenge the wikipedia entry that they were ever issued to any paratroops - German or not.

Knives Annual (forgot what year) reports they were a cheap Brit fake sold through dealers in the late 50's, along with Wells Fargo badges and the like for the flea market trade.

Some of those same knives were examined by actual German veterans of the era, who laughed at the entire concept. They did not exist during WWII, and the wikipedia entry is just another repetition of false knowledge.

I saw one at a Fort Smith pawn shop, and the owner even admitted it was a Brit fake from the '50's, Nazi "proof" marks and all. He wouldn't come down on the price because (we both agreed) somebody not knowing better would pay the $40.

It is a good time to pick up a "genuwine issue" KKK knife tho. Seen plenty of those pop up in mint condition lately.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I agree with tirod3. The Wikipedia article is very brief, typical of off-the-top-of-the-head information. As time goes on, or one of us gets ambitious, the information will be updated.

Search the Bernard Levine forum & I'm sure you'll find more threads on it, like this: Fake Nazi Pantograph Knife .

There is a link that will take you to Mike Hull:

Those knives(?) are absolute fakes. They are/have been represented as third reich "Paratrooper knives",they are currently being represented as modern "Paratrooper" knives.

They have never been issued to any Airborne forces, in any country.

and to Kodiak PA:

Mike is absolutley correct--You have a pure fantasy

What you have is the imaginary Nazi foldup knife made in England or India and sold by an American company (Parker Cutlery of Al Gores home state). Sorry bud, you got duped. But don't worry, you're not alone. There are so many fake Nazi pocketknives around that have been sold for so many years they actually look old now. The fact is the Nazi's were more interested in daggers than pocket knives and even the fake daggers out there out number the real ones. I hope you didn't pay too much for this. More than $10-15 is getting ripped out. I know it hurts but it is the truth.

This is a famous counterfeit and it is featured in a side bar of Levine's great pocketbook called, "pocket knives" on page 73.

If you're dealing with a reputable dealer you should insist on a return period in writing and spring for getting the knife appraised by Mr. Levine. It will save you a lot of time and headaches. If you bought it at an auction, you're outta luck as they say.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Huh, that makes a lot more sense.

Did S&W get suckered into the whole "paratroop knife" legend when they built the Power Glide knife?

Still, a fun little toy for $5. A buddy's friend was playing with it and really liked it, so I gave it to her as a gift.

 

[ivan51]

I got one from a friend made by Carl Eickhorn stamped RZM 1934 that shows some age.

 

[tirod3]

Any knife made in 1959 will now show some age - they are 48 years old.

I know a local collector who actually acquired German Paratrooper knives - authentic - and they are usually a straight blade single edge with tools in the handle, like a combo SAK/dagger. Antler scales, brass pins, and not very durable. This type is often seen catalogued in civilian mode as a hunting knife.

Why the heck didn't they copy that?

 

[blackviper91]

Theoretically it should be more durable than a folder since it is connected to the blade in 4 places instead of one. Maybe the reason these have a bad rep is that they are all cheapo models. I am going to order a powerglide (as far as I've heard best pantographic commercially available, plus fairly cheap) and try to make a custom one. If it works I might do a pass around to a few select members so that they can see that maybe the quality of the design isn't at fault, it is the worksmanship.

Cody

 

[So-Lo]

"What's the gimmick?"

Did you look at the pictures you posted

 

[BenchMyke]

I got one from a friend made by Carl Eickhorn stamped RZM 1934 that shows some age.

This knife Ivan51 speaks of is also stamped "SS" I believe they were gifts to over achievers. This one is definately original from '34. FWIW

 

[anson argyris]

I know a local collector who actually acquired German Paratrooper knives - authentic - and they are usually a straight blade single edge with tools in the handle, like a combo SAK/dagger. Antler scales, brass pins, and not very durable. This type is often seen catalogued in civilian mode as a hunting knife.

Sorry,but German Paratroopers where issued gravity knives
with wooden handles and equipped with an awl during WW II.
No antler scales, no more tools.
The knives You are mentioning are probably hunting knives , called 'Nicker' in Germany.
Sometimes, these knives have tools in the handle.

 

[bob bowie]

The only official German issued folding/pocket knife of WWII Is the Paratrooper gravity knife.

The stag handle folders you see as WWII folders sometimes are just traditional German folding hunters you can still buy them search under folding Jadgmesser- Linder, Weidmannshield, and Puma still make them.

The Pantogaph knife was a real knife or atleast it was a real patent, as the original early patent forms exist for it. No one has seen a old one to my knowledge.

The brass handled one you see cataloged as the "lazy tongs" or Nazi paratroopers knife is a fake no matter what it has stamped on it. This were produced in India or Pakistan for dealers in fakes. Deane and Adams was one such dealer in all sorts of knife related wackiness.

As early as the mid 70's , Ltc. Col. Thomas Johnson, one of the U.S. leaders in collecting German militaria, was warning people about them in the pages of Guns and Ammo.

One look should also rule it out, while neat, it's very sloppy.

As to why they are reproduced, they're neat and obscure, that's as good a reason as any.

 

[tirod3]

I'm quite aware of the gravity knives. My source of info is two acquaintances who traded militaria in the '70's with national level collectors - they were good enough to make a living at it, and held a few official gravity knives in their collection, too.

While I certainly won't dispute whether a hunting knife was issue, they were quite certain at the time it was provided to the troops thru channels, not as a private purchase, a common practice in most armies attempting to provide equipment not otherwise available due to a lack of officially engineered and vetted designs. Their acquistion was based on provenance and examination of available photographs of paratroopers, which they showed me from their library.

These were they days when you could buy an item from a seller's mailed list, send actual cash, and had a 10 day right of refusal. Unlike ebay, reputations were jealously guarded by ethical conduct.

This would place it in a "unit purchase" category. I leave it to others to define whether that constitutes "Wehrmact" official issue - but the concept is no less bought and paid for through government funds as compared to many other items.

The seventies was a great time to pay attention to the real, actual militaria from WWII that crowded gun show tables and composed the majority of transactions other than firearms. Viet stuff was still just surplus nylon junk a grade better than cotton webbing for deer hunting and camping out. Military knives would barely fill a riker mount (glass topped show case,) and very few ever brought more than a dozen cases for sale. Those guys were really strange - they collected military knives!?! Weird.