Para-Military 2 edge problem??

[SpyJ]

I have a para 2 with little use on it. I have never really sharpened the knife before, but decided to do so a few days ago. I thought I was a good sharpener until I watched some youtube videos on sharp making... :S

Anyway, I took a closer look at the edge before I started sharpening, I knew from before that the edge wasn't symmetrical on both sides. But discovered that it was worse than I had thought.
I used a sharpie pen on both sides of the edge, then made a few passes first on the 40 degrees setting on the sharpmaker. That side seemed to be almost exactly 40 degrees since the sharpie were removed over the whole surface of the edge. This side just had a 40 degree angle.

The other side seemed to a 30 degree angle! Tried first the 40 side then the 30, and the 30 degree side removed the sharpie over the whole side of the edge on that side. And not only that, I also discovered that the edge was off center, rather much off center! I made cross section picture (in paint) of the edge, the black outer lines are what the knife looked like (very ruffly and exaggerated!)

The green lines are what the edge looks like after having sharpened it on the 40 degree side (took me a while...)

I only have the sharpmaker, no other appliances to sharp a knife with, but I have the diamond rods for it. So I decided to try to set the bevel to 40 degrees on both sides, pushing the edge to the center of the blade. I think I succeeded quite nicely, but now I wonder If having just the 40 degree bevel on the knife is bad? I'm sort of new to sharpening and don't have complete knowledge about the "science" about sharpening...

And how long can I sharp the knife with the sharpmaker? Am I going to have the knife resharpened after "some" use, or could I just keep on using the sharpmaker? Since I evened out both sides with the diamond rods, would I bee needing any other way to sharpen the knife with? When I can get the d*mn edge razor sharp, I won't be using the stones, just strop it, and touch it up with the super fine stones. As of now I can't get rid of the burr, but I do have a rather polished edge...but that's for another time perhaps.
Sorry If my english is a bit off, haven't been writing for a while...

Thankful for any help on this!

 

[choombak]

Send it to Spyderco to get it sharpened (details on their site), and then practice on an el-cheapo $10 knife, not a para-mili. ;-)

 

[Luis G.]

Send it to Spyderco to get it sharpened

That won't fix much if the goal is to have symmetrical edges.

My Manix 2 came with a crooked grind from factory, as have just about every production knife I've purchased. It's one reason I reprofile most of my knives.

Only two knives came well sharpened, that was two sebbies.

 

[Cynic2701]

Send it to Spyderco to get it sharpened (details on their site), and then practice on an el-cheapo $10 knife, not a para-mili. ;-)

Probably not a good idea since it looks like the OP is from Sweden.

A lot of knives come like that. Edge grinds aren't going to be symmetrical unless you are pretty lucky, or you are willing to pay someone to spend the time to do it. To be honest, there's probably nothing wrong with your knife--the inclusive edge angle, if I read what you wrote correctly, is 35 degrees. This is actually lower than a lot of production knives.

You could spend the time to sharpen it out and correct it. Alternatively you could re-bevel the edge down to a 30 degree inclusive angle; in fact I would recommend doing this, especially since the work is essentially half done for you already.

 

[marthinus]

I only have the sharpmaker, no other appliances to sharp a knife with, but I have the diamond rods for it. So I decided to try to set the bevel to 40 degrees on both sides, pushing the edge to the center of the blade. I think I succeeded quite nicely That is good, you resolved the initial problem. The different angles are most likely a result of the freehand sharpening that Spyderco does on their knives., but now I wonder If having just the 40 degree bevel on the knife is bad? Why would you consider this a bad thing? If it works for you and your chores then there is no problem. I'm sort of new to sharpening and don't have complete knowledge about the "science" about sharpening...See the link below for some good sharpening advice. Read the stickies

And how long can I sharp the knife with the sharpmaker? Am I going to have the knife resharpened after "some" use, or could I just keep on using the sharpmaker? You could keep using the sharpmaker, but as one sharpens the edge starts to go back into thicker stock Photo below (link2). At some point down the line of years and years of use thinning out of the primary grind could be required in order to thin out the stock of the knife and increase cutting performance again. This can be seen in link 3.Since I evened out both sides with the diamond rods, would I bee needing any other way to sharpen the knife with? In future, maybe, depends if you are satisfied with your results When I can get the d*mn edge razor sharp, I won't be using the stones, just strop it, and touch it up with the super fine stones. As of now I can't get rid of the burr, but I do have a rather polished edge...but that's for another time perhaps.
Sorry If my english is a bit off, haven't been writing for a while...

Thankful for any help on this!

Replies in RED

But, dont forget to do some reading here:

Link to sharpening area
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/794-Maintenance-Tinkering-amp-Embellishment

Thickening of edge as time progress:

Link 2

And then here is:Link 3

 

[mrdeus]

I guess you could start thinning it for a while on the 30 degree setting whenever you touch up the 40 degree edge. Then you'd end up with 30 + 40 microbevel eventually. No need to do it in one go.

 

[SpyJ]

Probably not a good idea since it looks like the OP is from Sweden.

A lot of knives come like that. Edge grinds aren't going to be symmetrical unless you are pretty lucky, or you are willing to pay someone to spend the time to do it. To be honest, there's probably nothing wrong with your knife--the inclusive edge angle, if I read what you wrote correctly, is 35 degrees. This is actually lower than a lot of production knives.

You could spend the time to sharpen it out and correct it. Alternatively you could re-bevel the edge down to a 30 degree inclusive angle; in fact I would recommend doing this, especially since the work is essentially half done for you already.

Yup, I'm in Sweden, otherwise I might have had the knife sent to Spyderco. I have had more Spydercos that don't have symmetrical grinds, and a few other brands. Since I'm using the sharpmaker with the pre-set angles it's hard to get the knife satisfyingly sharp with the way this knife was sharpened from factory. I think this might be the worst knife grind I have had on all of my knives, except for a Leatherman folder that I sent back for an exchange.
I actually have a 40 degrees inclusive now, I think it would be a bit to much work to re-bevel it to 30 degrees using the sharpmaker, but like mrdeus suggested, I could use the 30 degree side everytime I sharpen the knife, and eventually have a thinner edge.

 

[SpyJ]

Replies in RED

But, dont forget to do some reading here:

Link to sharpening area
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/794-Maintenance-Tinkering-amp-Embellishment

Thickening of edge as time progress:

Link 2

And then here is:Link 3

The reason I thought a 40 degrees inclusive angle would be bad, is because I've heard that Spyderco have a 30 degree angle as the secondary bevel and then a 40 degrees angle. Perhaps the cutting performance would suffer having just the 40 degrees inclusive bevel, the edge being to thick. If my para 2 would have had a 30 then 40 edge bevel, that's seems to be a lot of steel missing from what I ended up with when I got this one...

I have owned a lot of knives through the years, but I guess that I have never really used any of them hard, thus never making it necessary for me to really get into sharpening "for real", I've just touched up the knives freehand with a ceramic stone, with very good results (probably since I never really dulled the knife to start with )

Ok, so what you mean by thinning out the primary grind is to grind the whole sides of the knife? From back to edge? I never really comprehended this before, guess I didn't thought about it very hard when I heard that you had to re-grind the knife after much use after years of use.

Thanks! This really clarified a lot for me! I will check out the links and be reading up, as much as I can! I really want to get a hang of sharpening my knives! Especially now when I've started using my knives "for real"

 

[SpyJ]

Send it to Spyderco to get it sharpened (details on their site), and then practice on an el-cheapo $10 knife, not a para-mili. ;-)

Perhaps the best thing is to practice with a cheaper knife...and not my all time favorite Spyderco! :O
But so far I haven't messed the knife up!

 

[marthinus]

The reason I thought a 40 degrees inclusive angle would be bad, is because I've heard that Spyderco have a 30 degree angle as the secondary bevel and then a 40 degrees angle. Perhaps the cutting performance would suffer having just the 40 degrees inclusive bevel, the edge being to thick. If my para 2 would have had a 30 then 40 edge bevel, that's seems to be a lot of steel missing from what I ended up with when I got this one...

There are some good advice given on applying a 30 degree bevel and then a 40 degree apex (micro) bevel. Think of it this way. You have the primary grind at approx 5 degrees (this forms the primary grind). This is step one, then you have a shoulder at 30 degrees, step two and then step three at 40 degrees. If you sharpen your knife next time, use the 30 degree settings for a small while (this is called back beveling in the Sharpmaker DVD) before going to the 40 degree setting. This creates a nice transition between all the angles.

Look at the link at 09:30 minutes. Sal talks about it.

[video=youtube;fP9Uc3ZM24Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP9Uc3ZM24Y[/video]

I have owned a lot of knives through the years, but I guess that I have never really used any of them hard, thus never making it necessary for me to really get into sharpening "for real", I've just touched up the knives freehand with a ceramic stone, with very good results (probably since I never really dulled the knife to start with )

Sharpening is like maintenance on tools and car. They need to be done in order to get good results. It is a good skill to learn, basics are important.

Ok, so what you mean by thinning out the primary grind is to grind the whole sides of the knife? From back to edge? I never really comprehended this before, guess I didn't thought about it very hard when I heard that you had to re-grind the knife after much use after years of use.

Yes, thinning out the primary grind does happen, but only after years of use. Some of us however like to experiment, like myself and do crazy stuff: Like me

[video=youtube;wrU6LqxZmQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrU6LqxZmQE[/video]



Thanks! This really clarified a lot for me! I will check out the links and be reading up, as much as I can! I really want to get a hang of sharpening my knives! Especially now when I've started using my knives "for real"

Good luck, and remember, all scratches are just character for the knife.

 

[SpyJ]

Finally! I have now after hours of grinding put a 30 degree bevel, and a micro 40 bevel on that! Didn't get 100% matching bevels on both sides, but close enough! I won't change it now, have to wait until the next time I have to sharp the back bevel. Only problem now are how to get the last burr off...have a strop on the way, I can't get it completely off with the UF stones. But it's the best sharpening results I have ever got so far!

Using the sharpmaker for this works, wouldn't say it's optimal, and It got me thinking and wanting to try a edge pro or a wicked edge system. Any tip on where's a good place to get one would be appreciated! I am in Sweden, so that makes it some hassle for me to buy that sort of things, shipping etc.

Thanks for all help, those links was really helpful! I see now that I haven't spend enough time reading on this forum

 

[mrdeus]

I guess you could fold the burr over by scraping the edge against some wood and then cutting it off with light edge-leading strokes. Bluntcut has a better description and a video in the maintenance sub-forum, but I don't have a link. I got my edge pro from chefknivestogo (USA). Don't know if it's the best place to get them, but it worked out for me since they had some accessories I wanted.

 

[SpyJ]

I guess you could fold the burr over by scraping the edge against some wood and then cutting it off with light edge-leading strokes. Bluntcut has a better description and a video in the maintenance sub-forum, but I don't have a link. I got my edge pro from chefknivestogo (USA). Don't know if it's the best place to get them, but it worked out for me since they had some accessories I wanted.

thanks, will see if I find it!

Ok, perhaps I could order one from them, heard good things about them!