Paramilitary 2 Pivot Design-Terrible

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28gauge

28gauge

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I've been around knives for a long time; Spydercos since they first came out. I ordered two Paramilitarys since they get a lot of publicity, but mostly since many described the pivot bushing as one that is similar to Chris Reeve's design. It's nothing like it. I have/had many CRK's and after studying the Paramilitary bushing on all the You Tube disassembly videos, I think the design is terrible. There's little capability to tune it. While most are fixated on loosening it up, when that pivot wears or if the tolerances are off and the blade becomes too loose with blade play, there's no mechanism for adjustment to tighten it? Blade play in any knife of quality is unacceptable! The washers should be free floating like a CRK and not locked between the shoulder of the pivot bushing and the liner. That way you can put in new/thicker washers, polish them to performance, or polish the bushing a few microns shorter, like a CRK. Spyderco will be getting a lot of these back as they grow old, if not already. I see a Gen 3 design change here and I think mine are going back, or at least one of them. I'd rather have a standard adjustable clamping pivot that gives me tuning capability than an ill conceived lock down bushing without options. It works for many great knives.
 
I have to agree. I absolutely loved everything about the pm2 except the pivot system. Trying to tune out bladeplay by adjusting two independent sides of the pivot is an exercise in futility. The D cutout is also loosely fit and the pivot rotates a few degrees if you play with the knife a lot. I would tune out the blade play and after opening/closing the knife a few times it would come right back. I could never get a free droping blade without lateral blade play.

The sage 1 with the standard pivot system and bronze washers on the other hand had a free dropping blade with absolutely no blade play whatsoever from the factory.

Again, such a shame as the PM2 is an extraordinary knife otherwise. The compression lock is absolutely amazing. Ergo's are insane. Deployment quick and easy, blade geometry amazing.
 
With this sort of mechanical discussion not being my forte', may I ask this in reference to tuning and blade play as it pertains to the PM2? Is a free dropping blade really much of an improvement on the overall functionality of a PM2? Or, is it just preference of the user? I mean, if you tune the pivot to be loose, well, then that's what you are gonna get. It's really a no brainer. Loose fit + loose blade = loose performance.

I'm not too keen on this whole free dropping blade functionality thing......the idea being why I have balked at purchasing or using the Manix series (light utility with light parts and the axis lock). I much prefer a tight fitting blade I have to actually manipulate in some manner other than gravity or the release of a safety button. I much prefer a snug blade with a liner or frame lock...or in this case, that awesome compression lock.
 
To me a solid lockup blade that freefalls is a sign of good design and construction. It is possible to achieve with a good old male/female pivot screw that has a properly fit D cutout. The sage series proves this. The PM2's pivot design is more complex for no good reason and is so that it is nearly impossible to have a free blade and no side play. If sal was to change the pivot to a classic male/female screw I would buy a PM2 again in a heartbeat.
 
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Thanks for the objectivity and (for the most part) agreement. Didn't mean to come on a bit strong here but I was a little disappointed with my research after buying 2 of these knives. If anyone has a simple means of tightening a Para blade, like you should be able to achieve on any knife, I'd be very happy to hear. Seems like it would require a modified parts kit on the part of Spyderco. I typically like the priviledge of adjusting my knives myself, however.
 
Tom, I agree with your preference 100%. This is the source of my disappointment. Why can't that be an adjustment option.
 
I agree. I'd rather have the PM1 pivot in my PM2. The blade either free-falls or it is too tight. I would much rather have a stationary side on the pivot with an adjustable screw on the other side. I like the PM2 but I can see that as it ages it will be more of a pain to adjust.
 
Is there no way of fitting a phosphor bronze washer between the scales and the blade? These are available down to 0.005" so one each side would tighten the blade.
 
28gauge said:
I ordered two Paramilitarys since they get a lot of publicity, but mostly since many described the pivot bushing as one that is similar to Chris Reeve's design. It's nothing like it.
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It sounds like your issue is with the internet community, who misled you into believing that the Para2 was something more than it is.

If anyone has a simple means of tightening a Para blade, like you should be able to achieve on any knife, I'd be very happy to hear.
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A torx driver :confused:

The pivot bushing system allows the pivot screws to be tightened until there is no side to side blade play, then the stop pin screws must also be adjusted so that there isn't too much or too little tension on the blade. Done properly it results in a pivot with no perceptible blade play in any direction that glides open as if on ball bearings.

It's harder than it sounds, and there's a bit of an "art" to getting it perfect, but unless parts are out of spec' it can be done. Several of my para2s weren't adjusted perfectly from the factory, but after a few tries they all ended up perfect.

I carried a Para2 exclusively until the G10 wore smooth, and the pivot was as perfect when I retired the knife as it was after I initially adjusted it more than a year before. After using it for a long time, it seems like a great design to me.

I like the Para2 for what it is: a $100 production knife. Comparing it to a $400 CRK is bound to disappoint.
 
My PM2 is perfect. The issue the Op is having has been discussed many times. There are plenty of tutorials on here about how to properly adjust it. Use the search function to find them.
 
MatthewSB said:
It sounds like your issue is with the internet community, who misled you into believing that the Para2 was something more than it is.



A torx driver :confused:

The pivot bushing system allows the pivot screws to be tightened until there is no side to side blade play, then the stop pin screws must also be adjusted so that there isn't too much or too little tension on the blade. Done properly it results in a pivot with no perceptible blade play in any direction that glides open as if on ball bearings.

It's harder than it sounds, and there's a bit of an "art" to getting it perfect, but unless parts are out of spec' it can be done. Several of my para2s weren't adjusted perfectly from the factory, but after a few tries they all ended up perfect.

I carried a Para2 exclusively until the G10 wore smooth, and the pivot was as perfect when I retired the knife as it was after I initially adjusted it more than a year before. After using it for a long time, it seems like a great design to me.

I like the Para2 for what it is: a $100 production knife. Comparing it to a $400 CRK is bound to disappoint.
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No need to be crass. You've not been around long enough to realize that it was, in fact, compared (to be similar) to the CRK bushing system. We're not idiots my man, we know how to use a Torx and we know how to adjust the pivot of the PM2. We're simply stating that we'd rather have the old kind back. We don't like the stepped pivot.
 
I have had 4 different Para 2s since they first came out. All were pretty much perfect as far as smooth opening and solid lock up. I think I tightened the pivot slightly on one of them at some point. Since they are so easy and fun to open and close, I probably did worked the action on them a lot more than necessary. None of them show any sign of wear. But if they ever do, hey they are inexpensive enough--I'll get a new one.
 
David Lowry said:
No need to be crass. You've not been around long enough to realize that it was, in fact, compared (to be similar) to the CRK bushing system. We're not idiots my man, we know how to use a Torx and we know how to adjust the pivot of the PM2. We're simply stating that we'd rather have the old kind back. We don't like the stepped pivot.
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"We don't like the stepped pivot" is much less inflammatory than "Pivot Design-Terrible".
 
David Lowry said:
No need to be crass. You've not been around long enough to realize that it was, in fact, compared (to be similar) to the CRK bushing system. We're not idiots my man, we know how to use a Torx and we know how to adjust the pivot of the PM2. We're simply stating that we'd rather have the old kind back. We don't like the stepped pivot.
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The comment about using a Torx driver had a smiley face at the end, it was a joke.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I guess I don't have much to add to this other than that all of my Para2s were great once adjusted properly, and the one that I used for more than a year is still perfect.
 
I guess I am the voice of dissention on this. The knife is not perfect, but for my likes it is pretty close and it is a marked improvement over what the original Para offered. I think the reason so many people make the comparison to the pivot design of the Sebenza is in order to help newer folks be able to wrap their head around the design/idea of what and how the pivot looks and functions. A single barrel with a screw on each side, seems pretty easy to make the jump. It is actually more similar than it is different. All I can say is that if you can wear out a pivot on a knife, then that might just be a first because I have yet to see that on a quality knife. :)
 
OK.....I have seen posts where people have had issues with the pivot. My PM2 is flawless. It opens smooth as butter, no blade play etc.

Now, I will admit it is not my favorite Spydie and I never carry it, but where can I find info on the pivot, with images, drawings etc. I mean since mine works perfectly, I guess I am not understanding the issue.
 
Both of my Para2's are perfect after the break in period with no need for adjustment.
 
I agree with Fancier, my use of terrible was a poor choice of words. I like the knife but the pivot system is less than precise. It did worse than not improve the knife, it is a set-back. I'm pretty confident they will modify it in Gen 3. Time will tell.
 
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