RokJok
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,169
FINE SLICING / WHITTLING
Favorite blade - Yari, SRK
In the slicing/whittling round of testing, edge/blade geometry and overall blade thickness became the controlling factors. Here's where the smaller thinner blades excel, as you'd expect. The thicker blades simply didn't offer the same level of sensitivity for curling off paper thin shavings as the control offered by the shorter thinner blades.
I found that the flat ground Yari and the Busses (being right-handed I was cutting with the flat side of their asymetrical edge) would dig into the wood to some depth, then simply skate ahead at that depth and not seem to dig in deeper as the cut progressed. The fully convex Spyderco Moran and A1 seemed to start into the wood harder than the flat ground edges (and at a steeper angle to the surface of the wood), but then kept digging into the wood deeper and deeper as the slice went forward. While the Moran was a strong slicer, the tendency to keep digging deeper puts it behind the Yari for whittling where delicate control counts strongly. The SRK had an extremely sharp edge out of the box and so offered very good control in this thin whittling, in spite of its thick grind. The saber ground primary bevel only rises about half way up the height of this 3/16" thick blade. That primary grind looks quite obtuse, but in my experience the very keen edge compensates for it.
COARSE SLICING / WHITTLING
Favorite blade - Spyderco Moran, Battle Mistress
This test is trying to hog a lot of wood off in a hurry. You might do this if you were roughing in a point on a branch. This test ran pretty much like the fine slicing, with the very strong performance of the Busse BM being a surprise.
In such rough work a blade would often reach its maximum depth of cut, then the blade would come flying out of the wood. This event was caused by either a sudden lateral splitting of the wood at the depth the edge had achieved or else running out of blade length as the edge was forced forward under considerable pressure. In the former case, the heavy mass & long inertial moment arm of the BM blade worked to tame the sudden forward acceleration of its blade as the wood gave way in front of it. In the latter case, the 9.5" length of the blade would keep some edge in contact with the wood until the slicing cut was completed. I expect this same phenomenon would be seen using a long bowie for such heavy slicing cuts into wood.
This test also pointed out how hand placement can make a lot of difference. I purposely did two rounds of this rough whittling: one round with the thumb braced on the blade spine and one using a full hammer grip (as if each knife had a double guard on it that would prevent using the braced thumb method). The braced thumb method always seemed to work much better than the hammer grip for getting this job done efficiently.
However, when bracing my thumb on the CU7's coarse-toothed thumb ramp for such forceful forward-thrusting slices (push cuts) I found the tops of the three large teeth put too much pressure on the ball of my thumb. I tried moving my forefinger ahead of the guard as if there were a choil cutout there, being careful not to curl my finger too tightly on the heel of the blade. With my forefinger curled there, I could then brace my thumb on the smooth downward-sloping FRONT slope of the thumb ramp. With my thumb forward of the aggressive teeth I used a pommel-leading cut (instead of pushing the tip forward as I made the cut) to do this heavy whittling MUCH more comfortably.
Considering this, I think the CU7 is a blade that begs for a choil cutout so I used my Dremel to grind a choil into my CU7. I radiused the edges of the choil cutout and the small guard piece sticking out below the scales so they don't dig into my finger. Now the CU7 works much better for my heavy whittling by allowing forceful draw cuts to be done with the balance point of the knife curled in the center of my palm.
END GRAIN CUTTING
Favorite blade - Yari
This is a test I feel is somewhat artificial. For this I used a sawed off section of branch about 2" in diameter. I was trying to slice off a very thin slice or wedge of endgrain from the end of the section. In this delicate but forceful type of slicing the controlling factors, in order of their influence, were that thin blades were better than thick ones and a flat grind gave better control than a convex grind.
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CONCLUSIONS BY KNIFE
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-- Busse BattleMistress-E, like new
9.5" blade, 1/4" thick INFI steel
This blade feels surprisingly spritely in hand compared to the RTAK, the other large blade tested. The BM-E proved to be a very VERY good cutter/slicer and the best heavy chopper of the bunch. The large blade swings well for chopping, but choking up on it and using the choil cutout allows it to dance & perform like a very much shorter blade.
I hadn't used this blade before this test, finding it too long for EDC. However, it rose many places in my affection during this work. As a big/little combo chosen from this batch of knives I'd choose the Battle Mistress as the big chopper and the Spyderco Moran FB-1 as the little cutter to piggyback onto it.
The only complaint I have on this knife is that the Busse Ergo handles (hence the -E disignation) are just a bit too tall from top to bottom for my short fingers. My grip is always forced open a little bit by them. But the handle configuration allowed my smaller hands to choke back on the handle for even more leverage when chopping.
-- Busse Basic 7
7" blade, 1/4" thick modified INFI steel
These are my favorite mid-size general purpose "do it all" blades, being long & heavy enough to handle moderate chopping but short enough for comfortable EDC wear. If I could only take one blade with me, this would be the one. Like all Busse knives, this model is "Hell For Tough" and will easily outperform the person driving it. For my hands this handle is still the the most comfortable one I've found for all-day work, which is a big part of my affection for this model. I find a Basic 7 coupled with an On-Scene Tactical kydex sheath to be my favorite blade/carry combo.
-- Busse Satin Jack, combat grade
6" blade, 1/4" thick INFI steel
This one didn't work very well chopping very small branches, did quite well on the 1"-2" size, and ran out of steam on the bigger ones. For whittling it seemed to do worse than the other Busses. I suspect that is because its blade is shorter edge-to-spine than the other Busses tested, which because they are all 1/4" thick means that the SJ's primary grind should be at a more obtuse angle. This did make it work very well for splitting wood though. My initial impression of the ridged somewhat rounded micarta handle is that it is as secure but not as comfortable as the Basic 7 and the BK&T C/U7. FWIW, it is a relatively small radius and more rounded shape than the Basic handles or the Busse ergo -E handles. So I'm not sure why my small fingers didn't find it more fun to work with.
The Satin Jack recently arrived, so will certainly bear more testing & work to get a more comprehensive feel for its strengths & weaknesses. Its blade being trimmer, lighter, and 1" shorter than the Basic 7 moved it well behind the 7 as an all-around blade. It will probably carry more conveniently than the 7" blades, but will need a higher riding sheath than the kydex-lined cordura drop sheath that it came with from the Busse shop. In spite of being another kydex-lined cordura sheath (no outside pocket on this one
) the retaining strap was so oversize that if I inverted the sheath and shook it the knife would fall cleanly out of it. The strap was too large to even catch on the talon hole guard, so it fails to do its job on this sheath. The other nit I'd pick on the sheath is that the reinforcing cloth tape around the edge is only single-stitched. I'd prefer double- or triple-stitching for durability.
-- Busse Basic 5 w/ edge equal to factory edge
5" blade, 1/4" thick modified INFI steel
The reason I liked the Basic 5 for the very light chopping was that it is short & light enough to easily start/stop these wrist-driven strokes, yet commanded enough weight to insure that it did get through in one stroke. The pinky finger hook on the Resiprene handle is prominent enough to keep the handle solidly seated in the grip as you whip it into the stroke. I also find it to be a pretty handy size blade around the kitchen. For those concerned what other people may think of your knife, this blade is short & stocky enough that it looks pretty innocuous and doesn't belie it's bombproof pedigree visually.
-- Newt Livesay RTAK
10" blade, 3/16" 1095 steel
flat ground edge, blade flat ground to spine
While this knife has worked well for me in the past on softer vegetation, it didn't seem to do very well on this wood. The edge would break into the branches pretty well, but it seemed to bog down and wedge in the cut easier than the thicker blades. It was a more tiring blade to work with due to this wedging in the cut and the fact that it was much more blade-heavy than the other knives. I really like this knife for the fit and finish. The micarta handle is very comfortable to me, the parkerized blade is heat treated for a very hard edge that lasts & lasts, and the spine has been rounded over (a very nice touch) so bracing your thumb up there lacks sharp pressure points.
-- Becker Knife & Tool Combat-Utility 7, new
7" blade, .188" thick high-carbon steel
flat ground edge, saber grind runs very high onto blade
The CU7 has a saber grind that rises so high on the blade that it is effectively a full flat grind. This geometry allows the blade to penetrate deeply into the green wood. The CU7 is my first BK&T knife, but I doubt it will be my last.
The very round radiused edges of the rectangular handle proved as comfortable as I suspected and hoped they would be. The outward flare at the pommel and the guard area of the handle were very comfortable, prevented the hand sliding off the handle, and made choking back on the handle for chopping easy. The pressure of gripping this knife was very well spread throughout the surface of the palm and fingers. No hotspots showed up on my hand with this knife. However, when my hand fatigued after much chopping the BK&T made my hand feel that fatigue much faster than the Busse Basic handles. I suspect this is another symptom brought about by my short fingers being forced open a bit by the larger overall circumference of the BK&T scales and the slickness of the scales vs the slight tackiness of the Busse's Resiprene handle, so YMMV.
Nonetheless, the C/U7 was the knife that most surprised me with its capabilities and overall Fun Factor. I simply found this knife to be a joy to use, whether chopping or cutting. My hat is off to Ethan Becker for a very enjoyable design. Now if I could just get them to put a choil on it ...
-- Fallkniven A1, virtually new
6" blade
1/4" thick VG10 stainless steel
fully convex ground blade
Although very good at splitting wood & heavy whittling cuts, I found the A1 to fall well behind the Busses, BK&T, and SRK in overall performance. Testing for more than chopping and cutting green wood might find a niche where this blade works better than it did for my job that day. Rounding off the upper corner of the slightly protruding tang is highly recommended to increase comfort when choking back for chopping.
-- Cold Steel Bushman
7" blade, 1/8" hi-carbon steel
flat ground edge, blade is flat ground to spine
The edge on this one was pretty dull out of the box and that, coupled with the light weight of its thin stock and the slick round rolled handle, put it behind the pack in all areas. It was also the cheapest of the blades tested by a wide margin (<$15 when I got it on sale). This is IMHO one of those knives that you buy because it's cheap pricewise, then invest some work on it to get it up to speed. I think it would work fine as a truck or toolbox knife, someplace where if it gets lost you won't feel very bad about it.
-- Cold Steel SRK
6" blade
3/16" thick Carbon V steel
flat ground edge, saber grind reaches about half-way up the blade
This one proved to be very close to the BK&T C/U7 as a good, reasonably priced all around blade. It bit into the wood very well at all thicknesses and its extremely keen edge sliced/whittled very cleanly. Its short saber grind also made it an effective wedge for splitting wood as well. SRK seconds are reportedly available for less than $30 from Cold Steel, which would make them a very high "bang for the buck" blade.
The downside of this blade is its handle. The kraton bites into the hand both from the squarish corners of the cross-section and the checkering in the kraton itself. The sheath is passable, getting special mention for being a factory sheath that is ambidextrous.
-- Gerber Yari, new condition
5" blade tip to scale
5/32" thick 154cm stainless steel
flat ground edge, saber grind runs very high onto blade
This is the most straight-on tactical design of all the blades used. Its approximately 5" blade in pretty thin stock is more pointy than any of the other knives. The swedge on the spine simply emphasizes that this blade is made for penetration. Even the extended tang pommel carries a pointed shape lending it to skull-smacking much more than to field usage. This blade will take a scary sharp edge and can cut like a demon. You can search on "RokJok" and "Yari" to find more comprehensive reports here on BFC of my feelings about this blade.
-- Spyderco Moran Featherweight FB-1 trailing point, like new
4" blade tip to scale, long flat choil
1/8" thick VG10 stainless steel
fully convex ground blade
I really like the Moran a lot as a cutting blade. I found it to be quick and dextrous in my hand. The huge percentage of belly on this blade (virtually the whole blade) makes it a maniac cutter. The weight of about 3 ounces make it feel non-existant for wear on the belt. I put a Blade-Tech Pull-Dot strap on the sheath and the Moran's small size & light weight make it a very inconspicuous EDC.
Favorite blade - Yari, SRK
In the slicing/whittling round of testing, edge/blade geometry and overall blade thickness became the controlling factors. Here's where the smaller thinner blades excel, as you'd expect. The thicker blades simply didn't offer the same level of sensitivity for curling off paper thin shavings as the control offered by the shorter thinner blades.
I found that the flat ground Yari and the Busses (being right-handed I was cutting with the flat side of their asymetrical edge) would dig into the wood to some depth, then simply skate ahead at that depth and not seem to dig in deeper as the cut progressed. The fully convex Spyderco Moran and A1 seemed to start into the wood harder than the flat ground edges (and at a steeper angle to the surface of the wood), but then kept digging into the wood deeper and deeper as the slice went forward. While the Moran was a strong slicer, the tendency to keep digging deeper puts it behind the Yari for whittling where delicate control counts strongly. The SRK had an extremely sharp edge out of the box and so offered very good control in this thin whittling, in spite of its thick grind. The saber ground primary bevel only rises about half way up the height of this 3/16" thick blade. That primary grind looks quite obtuse, but in my experience the very keen edge compensates for it.
COARSE SLICING / WHITTLING
Favorite blade - Spyderco Moran, Battle Mistress
This test is trying to hog a lot of wood off in a hurry. You might do this if you were roughing in a point on a branch. This test ran pretty much like the fine slicing, with the very strong performance of the Busse BM being a surprise.
In such rough work a blade would often reach its maximum depth of cut, then the blade would come flying out of the wood. This event was caused by either a sudden lateral splitting of the wood at the depth the edge had achieved or else running out of blade length as the edge was forced forward under considerable pressure. In the former case, the heavy mass & long inertial moment arm of the BM blade worked to tame the sudden forward acceleration of its blade as the wood gave way in front of it. In the latter case, the 9.5" length of the blade would keep some edge in contact with the wood until the slicing cut was completed. I expect this same phenomenon would be seen using a long bowie for such heavy slicing cuts into wood.
This test also pointed out how hand placement can make a lot of difference. I purposely did two rounds of this rough whittling: one round with the thumb braced on the blade spine and one using a full hammer grip (as if each knife had a double guard on it that would prevent using the braced thumb method). The braced thumb method always seemed to work much better than the hammer grip for getting this job done efficiently.
However, when bracing my thumb on the CU7's coarse-toothed thumb ramp for such forceful forward-thrusting slices (push cuts) I found the tops of the three large teeth put too much pressure on the ball of my thumb. I tried moving my forefinger ahead of the guard as if there were a choil cutout there, being careful not to curl my finger too tightly on the heel of the blade. With my forefinger curled there, I could then brace my thumb on the smooth downward-sloping FRONT slope of the thumb ramp. With my thumb forward of the aggressive teeth I used a pommel-leading cut (instead of pushing the tip forward as I made the cut) to do this heavy whittling MUCH more comfortably.
Considering this, I think the CU7 is a blade that begs for a choil cutout so I used my Dremel to grind a choil into my CU7. I radiused the edges of the choil cutout and the small guard piece sticking out below the scales so they don't dig into my finger. Now the CU7 works much better for my heavy whittling by allowing forceful draw cuts to be done with the balance point of the knife curled in the center of my palm.
END GRAIN CUTTING
Favorite blade - Yari
This is a test I feel is somewhat artificial. For this I used a sawed off section of branch about 2" in diameter. I was trying to slice off a very thin slice or wedge of endgrain from the end of the section. In this delicate but forceful type of slicing the controlling factors, in order of their influence, were that thin blades were better than thick ones and a flat grind gave better control than a convex grind.
------------------
CONCLUSIONS BY KNIFE
------------------
-- Busse BattleMistress-E, like new
9.5" blade, 1/4" thick INFI steel
This blade feels surprisingly spritely in hand compared to the RTAK, the other large blade tested. The BM-E proved to be a very VERY good cutter/slicer and the best heavy chopper of the bunch. The large blade swings well for chopping, but choking up on it and using the choil cutout allows it to dance & perform like a very much shorter blade.
I hadn't used this blade before this test, finding it too long for EDC. However, it rose many places in my affection during this work. As a big/little combo chosen from this batch of knives I'd choose the Battle Mistress as the big chopper and the Spyderco Moran FB-1 as the little cutter to piggyback onto it.
The only complaint I have on this knife is that the Busse Ergo handles (hence the -E disignation) are just a bit too tall from top to bottom for my short fingers. My grip is always forced open a little bit by them. But the handle configuration allowed my smaller hands to choke back on the handle for even more leverage when chopping.
-- Busse Basic 7
7" blade, 1/4" thick modified INFI steel
These are my favorite mid-size general purpose "do it all" blades, being long & heavy enough to handle moderate chopping but short enough for comfortable EDC wear. If I could only take one blade with me, this would be the one. Like all Busse knives, this model is "Hell For Tough" and will easily outperform the person driving it. For my hands this handle is still the the most comfortable one I've found for all-day work, which is a big part of my affection for this model. I find a Basic 7 coupled with an On-Scene Tactical kydex sheath to be my favorite blade/carry combo.
-- Busse Satin Jack, combat grade
6" blade, 1/4" thick INFI steel
This one didn't work very well chopping very small branches, did quite well on the 1"-2" size, and ran out of steam on the bigger ones. For whittling it seemed to do worse than the other Busses. I suspect that is because its blade is shorter edge-to-spine than the other Busses tested, which because they are all 1/4" thick means that the SJ's primary grind should be at a more obtuse angle. This did make it work very well for splitting wood though. My initial impression of the ridged somewhat rounded micarta handle is that it is as secure but not as comfortable as the Basic 7 and the BK&T C/U7. FWIW, it is a relatively small radius and more rounded shape than the Basic handles or the Busse ergo -E handles. So I'm not sure why my small fingers didn't find it more fun to work with.
The Satin Jack recently arrived, so will certainly bear more testing & work to get a more comprehensive feel for its strengths & weaknesses. Its blade being trimmer, lighter, and 1" shorter than the Basic 7 moved it well behind the 7 as an all-around blade. It will probably carry more conveniently than the 7" blades, but will need a higher riding sheath than the kydex-lined cordura drop sheath that it came with from the Busse shop. In spite of being another kydex-lined cordura sheath (no outside pocket on this one
) the retaining strap was so oversize that if I inverted the sheath and shook it the knife would fall cleanly out of it. The strap was too large to even catch on the talon hole guard, so it fails to do its job on this sheath. The other nit I'd pick on the sheath is that the reinforcing cloth tape around the edge is only single-stitched. I'd prefer double- or triple-stitching for durability.-- Busse Basic 5 w/ edge equal to factory edge
5" blade, 1/4" thick modified INFI steel
The reason I liked the Basic 5 for the very light chopping was that it is short & light enough to easily start/stop these wrist-driven strokes, yet commanded enough weight to insure that it did get through in one stroke. The pinky finger hook on the Resiprene handle is prominent enough to keep the handle solidly seated in the grip as you whip it into the stroke. I also find it to be a pretty handy size blade around the kitchen. For those concerned what other people may think of your knife, this blade is short & stocky enough that it looks pretty innocuous and doesn't belie it's bombproof pedigree visually.
-- Newt Livesay RTAK
10" blade, 3/16" 1095 steel
flat ground edge, blade flat ground to spine
While this knife has worked well for me in the past on softer vegetation, it didn't seem to do very well on this wood. The edge would break into the branches pretty well, but it seemed to bog down and wedge in the cut easier than the thicker blades. It was a more tiring blade to work with due to this wedging in the cut and the fact that it was much more blade-heavy than the other knives. I really like this knife for the fit and finish. The micarta handle is very comfortable to me, the parkerized blade is heat treated for a very hard edge that lasts & lasts, and the spine has been rounded over (a very nice touch) so bracing your thumb up there lacks sharp pressure points.
-- Becker Knife & Tool Combat-Utility 7, new
7" blade, .188" thick high-carbon steel
flat ground edge, saber grind runs very high onto blade
The CU7 has a saber grind that rises so high on the blade that it is effectively a full flat grind. This geometry allows the blade to penetrate deeply into the green wood. The CU7 is my first BK&T knife, but I doubt it will be my last.
The very round radiused edges of the rectangular handle proved as comfortable as I suspected and hoped they would be. The outward flare at the pommel and the guard area of the handle were very comfortable, prevented the hand sliding off the handle, and made choking back on the handle for chopping easy. The pressure of gripping this knife was very well spread throughout the surface of the palm and fingers. No hotspots showed up on my hand with this knife. However, when my hand fatigued after much chopping the BK&T made my hand feel that fatigue much faster than the Busse Basic handles. I suspect this is another symptom brought about by my short fingers being forced open a bit by the larger overall circumference of the BK&T scales and the slickness of the scales vs the slight tackiness of the Busse's Resiprene handle, so YMMV.
Nonetheless, the C/U7 was the knife that most surprised me with its capabilities and overall Fun Factor. I simply found this knife to be a joy to use, whether chopping or cutting. My hat is off to Ethan Becker for a very enjoyable design. Now if I could just get them to put a choil on it ...
-- Fallkniven A1, virtually new
6" blade
1/4" thick VG10 stainless steel
fully convex ground blade
Although very good at splitting wood & heavy whittling cuts, I found the A1 to fall well behind the Busses, BK&T, and SRK in overall performance. Testing for more than chopping and cutting green wood might find a niche where this blade works better than it did for my job that day. Rounding off the upper corner of the slightly protruding tang is highly recommended to increase comfort when choking back for chopping.
-- Cold Steel Bushman
7" blade, 1/8" hi-carbon steel
flat ground edge, blade is flat ground to spine
The edge on this one was pretty dull out of the box and that, coupled with the light weight of its thin stock and the slick round rolled handle, put it behind the pack in all areas. It was also the cheapest of the blades tested by a wide margin (<$15 when I got it on sale). This is IMHO one of those knives that you buy because it's cheap pricewise, then invest some work on it to get it up to speed. I think it would work fine as a truck or toolbox knife, someplace where if it gets lost you won't feel very bad about it.
-- Cold Steel SRK
6" blade
3/16" thick Carbon V steel
flat ground edge, saber grind reaches about half-way up the blade
This one proved to be very close to the BK&T C/U7 as a good, reasonably priced all around blade. It bit into the wood very well at all thicknesses and its extremely keen edge sliced/whittled very cleanly. Its short saber grind also made it an effective wedge for splitting wood as well. SRK seconds are reportedly available for less than $30 from Cold Steel, which would make them a very high "bang for the buck" blade.
The downside of this blade is its handle. The kraton bites into the hand both from the squarish corners of the cross-section and the checkering in the kraton itself. The sheath is passable, getting special mention for being a factory sheath that is ambidextrous.
-- Gerber Yari, new condition
5" blade tip to scale
5/32" thick 154cm stainless steel
flat ground edge, saber grind runs very high onto blade
This is the most straight-on tactical design of all the blades used. Its approximately 5" blade in pretty thin stock is more pointy than any of the other knives. The swedge on the spine simply emphasizes that this blade is made for penetration. Even the extended tang pommel carries a pointed shape lending it to skull-smacking much more than to field usage. This blade will take a scary sharp edge and can cut like a demon. You can search on "RokJok" and "Yari" to find more comprehensive reports here on BFC of my feelings about this blade.
-- Spyderco Moran Featherweight FB-1 trailing point, like new
4" blade tip to scale, long flat choil
1/8" thick VG10 stainless steel
fully convex ground blade
I really like the Moran a lot as a cutting blade. I found it to be quick and dextrous in my hand. The huge percentage of belly on this blade (virtually the whole blade) makes it a maniac cutter. The weight of about 3 ounces make it feel non-existant for wear on the belt. I put a Blade-Tech Pull-Dot strap on the sheath and the Moran's small size & light weight make it a very inconspicuous EDC.
