Part II of quality issues... lets hear what you think.

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Dr sharp

Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Messages
299
Well i see other people also find it irritating to get a new knife home and find flaws in it. MY new question is this, Why are knives so prone to being not 100 percent. Ive collected watches and pens for a long time also but in all my years collecting they never come from a factory flawed.Now ive had , rolex, timex and the like, but they never come with burrs or misaligned numbers or scratched crystals. Im wondering if the knife world thinks we will just accept flawed products. Ive had a 450.00 mother of pearl high end knife come thru loaded with metal shavings all down in the liner lock and at the pivot..now how would that happen?? Ive also had a few high end knives with misaligned blades. I think rolex and montblanc knows professional people buy these and wont settle for anything less than perfection. Id like to hear some theorys on why so many knives come thru flawed?
 
I guess not enough of us Knife Knuts complain to the manufacturers. The average knife buyer is not as "picky" and often don't pick up flaws. I sell knives and I am amazed at the number of buyers who don't know what a sharp blade is. I check all the edges of my knives before I sell them and would have to touch up at least 30% of them before I put them out for sale. I have tried complaining to wholesalers in the past but most of them are ignorant also. If I find a range of knives that continually have problems I don't stock them. Unfortunately it comes back to the consumer and whilst they put up with the problems the makers won't institue better quality control.
 
What you say about other high end products is not really true. A friend went to the jewelry store to pick up a nice new Movado watch. This watch was $1200.00 and it had a couple of small scratches on the edge of the face. He asked the Jewelry store to bring him in another one. If I were to get a $1200.00 dollar factory knife that had imperfections of that type I would also want it to replaced. If it were a custom knife I would expect the scratches to be fixed at no cost to myself, and that would include shipping.

I am sure that slight flaws from the factory happen at times with all products. Does it happen more often with knives? Not sure, but one thing that is for sure, I would no accept these flaws in a knife than I would in any other product.

By the way, I have seen lots of Timex and Swatch watches that have had small scuffs and or minor scratches on them. When this happens I am willing to accept the flaws unless is it a scuff to the crystal. It is the same way with knives. I am willing to live with these some of these minor imperfections when dealing with low to middle end products.
 
I don't expect to find perfection in a $200 knife, I think that's being a little bit unrealistic. It is annoying when there are obvious manufacturing problems on a knife, but I haven't seen one that is horrible. I can deal with a slightly off center blade as long as it doesn't rub, or minor handling scuffs as long as they aren't readily noticeable. The Sebenza is the best made knife I've ever seen for under $500, unfortunately it is the only knife I've ever seen approach perfection.

I have also become weary of buying knives from certain dealers (mostly at gunshows) because most "new" knives have been handled by a hundred people, roughly handled, stacked on top of each other, flicked... The condition of most used knives I've bought from forumites are nicer than some of the "new" knives I've seen at these gunshow dealers.
 
Ultimately it comes down to what you're willing to pay for. Your money will do the talking. If you're going to pay $500 for an unfinished knife, and they can get away with it, they will.
Personally, I know that knives from Benchmade, SOG, CRK, William Henry, Extremia Ratio, and a few others are not going to have problems, and if they do, then their customer service will quickly help me out. Unfortunetly, we knuts are not in the majority, and crap will always continue to sell. The best thing we can do is to be discriminating buyers.
 
It all depends on the price point. The higher the price, the higher the expectations. My biggest beef with W.R. Case is that I know what their quality has been in years past. It's really a shame they can't/ don't/ won't manufacture to that level now.

Paul
 
Well, I am beginning to ask for better quality. At first, I thought that it really took an outfit like Microtech to get things right.

But then I received a Buck mini-Alpha Hunter, and a CRKT M-1. Both fantastic knives and darn near flawless in fit and operation.

With one custom guy, I am still waiting after six years. I got my custom Buck 110 in three weeks.

It seems that some companies can service clients, and some don't have the knack of it yet. And then they seem confused when my buying habits shift. Imagine that!
 
I just got a spyderco delica 9first spyderco), and the back of the blade, in the handle, that the lockback slides across while you open the knife, has an unsmoothed spot with machining marks, so when you open the knife it feels like there's sand in it at that one spot or something. Nothing majorly hurting the function of the knife, but then again it's not a $10 knife either. It's nice but I'm not seeing how the price is justified at this point.
 
I think what contributes to this problem is that if you are here, you are an enthusiast, and as such your standard will be higher across the board regardless of price range.

This sets up expectation that are almost impossible to reach at almost any price point. ( except for the sebenza of course. :p )
 
My Buck 110 had perfect fit and finish. At just under a tenth of what a large Sebenza costs, maybe a Buck 110 is the knife everyone needs.

Also, my Cold Steels had perfect F&F's, too.

So maybe a Buck 110 is the knife everyone needs. :p
 
Buck 110s, and all lockbacks are nice, but you can't easily close them one handed, and that's what I like in a knife. It's an issue of technology and knives getting more and more complicated, not to mention the fact that newer models are just going to have more QC problems than classics, which in a very competitive market that sells mostly only the latest and the best. So, you're just not going to see too many classic models.

I also think that that quality is a question of tolerances. Benchmade, for example, I think has excellent overall quality, and they keep extremely tight tolerances, so does Chris Reeve. Maybe that's what other companies need. And yes, I have heard that MT has extremely tight tolerances, but since they have a lot of new models coming out all the time, they probably don't have time to perfect their manufacturing.
 
Originally posted by thombrogan
My Buck 110 had perfect fit and finish. At just under a tenth of what a large Sebenza costs, maybe a Buck 110 is the knife everyone needs.

Also, my Cold Steels had perfect F&F's, too.

So maybe a Buck 110 is the knife everyone needs. :p
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Hey Thom, are you implying that your Spydercos and Benchmades are not up to the fit and finish of Sebenzas? :rolleyes: :p
 
Having done a lot of statistical sampling, there is a expected error rate that is used for quality control purposes.

There are trade offs, and cost effect issues.

For example (rough example):

You want to be 99% confident that all items are acceptable, with an expected error rate of 2% = of a population of 10,000 items, you might have to sample 400.

On the other hand, you want to be 99% conident, wiht an expected error rate of 3% = of the polulation you might only have to take a sample of 240 items.

Thus, the cost is considerably less sampling fewer items.

In a mass production population there will always be an error rate. The cost of 100 percent quality control is prohibitive in a very large population.

The good manufacturers are those who do a reasonalble quality control sample, but who correct any flaws that get through promptly, and with no hassle.
 
So, what kind of pens do you collect? I have a pretty extensive collection of high end fountain pens and I'd say more than 25% of them come from the factory unable to write properly. There are several people who make a living making new pens useable because the factory service is truly awful. Most of the Italian pen manufacturers send the pens back to Italy for service. The wait is in months. Flawless pens? Not in my lifetime.
 
Originally posted by Easyrider
Hey Thom, are you implying that your Spydercos and Benchmades are not up to the fit and finish of Sebenzas?
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Not implying that at all. Don't have a Sebenza with which to compare them. If want to get me one, please remember I'm a lefty.

I was saying that my Buck 110 is as close to perfect as I've seen.
 
I would take my $150 Benchmade 805 over a $400 Sebenza anyday! (And yes, I HAVE owned a couple Sebenzas.). I just like the way the 805 feels in MY hand...It's perfect.
 
Originally posted by thombrogan
Not implying that at all. Don't have a Sebenza with which to compare them. If want to get me one, please remember I'm a lefty.

I was saying that my Buck 110 is as close to perfect as I've seen.
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:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p
 
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