Part of put up or shut up

markhait

markhait

Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
297
I want to be able to read a map and compass WELL.
I've never owned a GPS and am resisting the urge.
What I'm thinking of doing is buying a USGI lensatic compass
and practice, practice, practice!
One thing I'm wondering....geocaching would be great practice,
but can you do it using a compass? I know you can find either
lat or long, but to be able to get the intersection...
Can you do it? How? Do you HAVE to have a map
to do it?
 
markhait said:
One thing I'm wondering....geocaching would be great practice,
but can you do it using a compass? I know you can find either
lat or long, but to be able to get the intersection...
Can you do it? How? Do you HAVE to have a map
to do it?
Click to expand...
Yes you can find a position (ie both longitude & latitude), but you will need an accurate sighting compas and appropriately scaled map.

I would suggest practicing the basics of map & compas first before attempting geocaching. Once you become familiar with the terminology, the following will make more sense.

The principal of using a compas to find your position, is to take a bearing on two seperate landmarks and mark the bearings to these landmarks on a map (this of course relies on you being able to locate the landmarks on the map). Where the two bearing lines meet is your position.

You can use a variation of the same technique to locate an exact spot. If you have the coordinates of the stash/cache and know your location, use the map to locate the coordinates of the stash/cache and mark this spot on the map. Then use your compas to calculate the direction of travel (we'll call this bearing no.1) from your starting position to the stash / cache.

Before heading off, use the map to pick a landmark that you think will be visible from the stash / cache location (eg a big hill that we'll call landmark no.2), and using the map & compas, measure the bearing to this second land mark from the stash/cache (we'll call this bearing no.2).

Travel along bearing no.1 and when the second landmark becomes visible check the bearing from your current position to landmark no.2. Keep travelling along bearing no.1 untill the bearing to landmark no.2 matches the bearing you established at the start (ie bearing no.2).

If you are geocaching in flat / featureless land like our outback, then a GPS has real advantages as features in the terrane become so much harder to spot.


Have fun :thumbup:



Kind regards
Mick
 
Mark,
You can get down to a gnats butt with a compass and map if you want.
I did a series of vids on the lensatic compass for beginners.
Check 'em out here if you're interested.
It was the first videos I ever did so they're a little rough. Might help, might not.
These don't cover grid coordinates but I plan on doing some of that in future vids.
Later,
Iz
 
our forefathers managed to get around the world a few times in sailing ships without adequate maps or navigation instruments.
In the early 1800's , mariners were able to find remote islands with maps, compass and sextant.
It can be done, but it takes a lot of skill, practice and dedication.
All of that is far beyond anything I can do. :eek:
 
What Southern Cross said is spot on :thumbup: You absolutely do need to have a topographical map of the area you're working in. Learning to work with a map and compass is not rocket science, boy scouts have been doing it for a hundred years. But, it's something you want to study and learn at home before you launch yourself into the wilderness.

Possibly the most confusing thing about interpreting a topographical map are the elevation lines. They require you to look at a two dimensional chart, but to think in a three dimensional mode. I'd suggest contacting your local boy scout group to see if anybody in your area gives classes on orienteering or geocaching.

Edit: Mark, don't be intimidated, map reading and compass work are a fascinating pursuit. You've already stated you want to do it WELL, and that's the first step to success.
 
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If your just begining land Nav, I suggest starting with a baseplate compass like the Silva Ranger(or equivelant)...Im a huge fan of the lensatic, from my military days as a Scout, but I read a thread Brian Andrews did awhile back, and noticed alot of the merits of a baseplate..Ill see if I can dig it up, or maybe Brian will chime in..
 
I don't want to see this devolve into an argument about which compass is best. They all work on the same basic principal, they all point to magnetic north...which will vary depending on where you live.

The lensatic compass is good for field work, the baseplate is good for table-top work. I love compasses, love to collect them, from miniatures (one is mounted in the scales of a steel Cub Scout knife, can't imagine that works too well) to a large antique bronze gimbel-mounted ship's compass.

They all do the same thing, point to magnetic north. The only difference after that is what kind of housing they're in, designed for the task you have at hand.
 
Except a baseplate has the protractor attatched, and can be easier to teach newbies how to use.

I love all compasses, but I dont think they are all the same by any means. Sure, they all point north, but there is alot of differances as far as the tools to accurately use a map to plot a course, and triangulate....

Not trying to start an "arguement" just adding to the conversation, and offering up some experiance from someone who has spent alot of time, day and night, with a lensatic in his hands.
 
Thank you all for your comments! Mick thats for explaining how to determine a position from your position. I mean, duh..that should have been obvious, but sometimes that can confuse us to no end :D
bindlestitch, thats for the videos...actually I haven't watched them yet, but I will right after I type this.

A little about my background....I'm a tool and die guy and so am VERY familiar with prints and how to read them. I mean, we have to be accurate within thousandths of a inch! Map work should come pretty quick for me.

Compass....I used to backpack in my college years and so have the baseplate Silva compass. In fact I have 2 of them because I used one on the front of my kayak.
I was thinking of buying a lensatic compass because I don't have one and it may come useful in field work. Since I already have a baseplate compass for the map part, I think a lensatic would be a great companion for the field.

Maps....in its day of computers and everything being electronic, where can you get a map with high detail? I looked up geocaching and there is a cache near my home and so I thought that it would be neat, after practicing for a bit, to locate this cache using a map and compass. Where can I get a local map that is high in detail? I guess this is why gps is so popular!
I'd love a gps, but I'm determined to figure the compass thing out first!!!

Once I get a map, I can take it to work and make a copy on our large plotter and then I can cut out only the portion I need. That way it will be easier to carry in the field.
 
j williams said:
Except a baseplate has the protractor attatched, and can be easier to teach newbies how to use.

I love all compasses, but I dont think they are all the same by any means. Sure, they all point north, but there is alot of differances as far as the tools to accurately use a map to plot a course, and triangulate....
Click to expand...

Heh heh. That's what I said. I can already see that is going to become a "my way is better than your way" argument.

By the way, if you want a protractor, get a real protractor...or better yet, a 360 degree plotting tool...not the cheesy little thing you find on most base-plate compasses.
 
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markhait said:
Maps....in its day of computers and everything being electronic, where can you get a map with high detail? I looked up geocaching and there is a cache near my home and so I thought that it would be neat, after practicing for a bit, to locate this cache using a map and compass. Where can I get a local map that is high in detail? I guess this is why gps is so popular!
I'd love a gps, but I'm determined to figure the compass thing out first!!!
Click to expand...


Check your local hunting, fishing and sporting goods suppliers, they often have good topo maps for your local area. Otherwise, you may have to do a Google search.

I love GPS, I'm planning to buy a hand held soon to accompany my maps and compass. But if it craps out, I still have the map and compass.

Edit: GPS will not give you the high detail that you get on a good topographical map.
 
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Geocaching with only a compass and a map would be "very challenging".
However, there are some geocachers who only use the printed satellite map from the geocaching.com web site to go find caches. I've done this a few times with some success.
It can be done, but you have to approach searching for the geocache with the attitude that actually finding the cache is not that important and your main "reward" is simply being outdoors and having a good time searching.
I say this because some people obsess over finding the cache and it’s not fun unless they do.
Some tips for you:
Avoid the Micros (35 mm film can or smaller) and unknown size(usually nanos) caches. Some of these are extremely hard to find even for very experienced cachers.
I'd search for regular (ammo cans) or large (5 gal bucket) caches in public forests or parks.

Look for the bigger size caches that have had several finds recently. Caches with some DNF's (Did not find) may actually be missing and need replacement by the owner. The majority of cache seekers do not post DNF's. They see it as a failure somehow on their part. At least in my area.

Be aware that the satellite maps from the geocaching website are not always very accurate. Here is an example. The map showed the cache location at the smiley face. I actually found this cache at the small yellow dot to the left. The GPS coordinates I showed at the actual cache location were within 15 ft.
Angels.jpg



Using the satellite map with a terrain map should get you quite close.

Also be aware that some geocachers purposely post "soft coordinates" for their cache locations. They do this to make their caches "harder to find." Soft coords replace good hiding skills.
Some are just sloppy and don't care how accurate their coords are.

When you think you are close to the cache location, start looking for "geobeacons".
Hollow trees & logs, rock piles, big deadfalls, neatly piled sticks on the ground. These are common hiding spots.

I hope you have fun and give it a try. One more reason to get out in the woods :)
 
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Markhait,
I took the liberty of searching geocaching.com for the zip code for Milford, MI.
If you go to a cache page and click on the cache map, then select Terrain at the top, you can see some good detail. You can also select the satellite view:)
miltonmia.jpg


I see you have a "couple" of caches in that area...lol
miltonmibquiteafew.jpg


They are EVERYWHERE!
As of today, There are 973,099 active geocaches around the world.
 
Coldwood said:
Heh heh. That's what I said. I can already see that is going to become a "my way is better than your way" argument.

By the way, if you want a protractor, get a real protractor...or better yet, a 360 degree plotting tool...not the cheesy little thing you find on most base-plate compasses.
Click to expand...

I have alot of protractors. They are a must...:thumbup:

Damn man, no arguements here, I dont care what anyone carries. I was just saying that if someone is totally a newb with land nav, it might be easier for said individual to start off with a baseplate. Some people find them easier then a lensatic military type compass. However the OP stated that he has a couple baseplates, and wants to learn on a lensatic as well, so there ya go.

Honestly, I hate the my way is better mentality. I try to put in differant options so all avenues can be explored.

Land Nav is a very fun thing to learn how to do. When you plot your first trek, and start learning to read a topo map, and comparing it to terrain, it is very rewarding. It intimidates some people to know end, I saw alot of guys who just couldnt get it for the longest time....but, when they finally did, it was cool to see.

Good luck to the OP, I look forward to hearing about your journey in this subject. :thumbup:
 
j williams said:
Land Nav is a very fun thing to learn how to do. When you plot your first trek, and start learning to read a topo map, and comparing it to terrain, it is very rewarding. It intimidates some people to know end, I saw alot of guys who just couldnt get it for the longest time....but, when they finally did, it was cool to see.
Click to expand...

Right on :thumbup: I know it's a difficult thing to arrange, but I think it really helps a new person if somebody experienced can sit down with them and look at a map on a table top and help them interpret it. There is so much useful information on a topographical map.
 
j williams said:
If your just begining land Nav, I suggest starting with a baseplate compass like the Silva Ranger(or equivelant)...Im a huge fan of the lensatic, from my military days as a Scout, but I read a thread Brian Andrews did awhile back, and noticed alot of the merits of a baseplate..Ill see if I can dig it up, or maybe Brian will chime in..
Click to expand...
The Silva Ranger is actually a sighting compass :D

A baseplate compass does not have a mirror to allow you to see the compass capsule whilst using it to take a bearing at eye level. Whilst they are good, IMO they are not as accurate as a sighting compass :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick
 
I just ordered a lensatic compass from Cammenga. They supply the USGI compass...just a plus that they're here in Michigan. Never knew that!

As far as maps go....I just found this.
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/(ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=$ROOT&layout=6_1_61_75&uiarea=2)/.do
Its the US Geological Survey site and you can either order a topo map from them or just print one out. I've saved a local map and am going to take it to work tomorrow and print it on our plotter. Full size, the map is like 20" x 22".
This way if I print it out to size, the lat, long should be correct.

I never throw anything out....I checked my book shelf that I keep my camping books on and I found the Silva pamphlet that came with my Silva compass. Its all yellowed up, but still reads great and they explain the compass and taking bearings in a real simple way. Can't wait till I get outdoors and try some orienteering.
 
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