Passing of a Hero

Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
13,182
This guy had some balls!

Hugh C. Thompson, Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) was a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. He is chiefly known for his role in stopping the My Lai Massacre, during which he was flying a reconnaissance mission.

Born in Atlanta, Georgia, Thompson joined the US Navy in 1961, then US Army in 1966 and trained as a helicopter pilot. He volunteered for the Aerial Scout Unit and assigned to Task Force Barker to fly over Vietnamese forests and try to draw enemy fire, to pinpoint the location of troops. Serving as one door-gunner, his Crew Chief was Glenn Andreotta and his other door-gunner was Spc Lawrence Colburn, both of whom would later also draw claims of heroism for their role at My Lai, though Andreotta died three weeks after the event.

After coming across the dead bodies of Vietnamese civilians outside My Lai on March 16, 1968, Thompson set down their OH-23 and the three men began setting green gas markers by the prone bodies of the Vietnamese civilians who appeared to still be alive. Returning to the helicopter however, they saw Captain Ernest Medina run forward and begin shooting the wounded who had been marked - and the three men moved their ship back over the village where Thompson confronted Lt. Stephen Brooks who was preparing to blow up a hut full of cowering and wounded Vietnamese; he left Andreotta and Colburn to cover the company with their heavy machine guns and orders to fire on any American who refused the orders to halt the massacre. (Needless to say, none of the officers dared to disobey him, although as a mere warrant officer, Thompson was outranked by the commissioned lieutenants.)

Thompson: Let's get these people out of this bunker and get 'em out of here.
Brooks: We'll get 'em out with hand grenades.
Thompson: I can do better than that. Keep your people in place. My guns are on you.
Thompson then ordered two other helicopters (one piloted by Dan Millians) flying nearby to serve as a medevac for the 11 wounded Vietnamese. While flying away from the village, Andreotta spotted movement in an irrigation ditch, and the helicopter was again landed and a child was extracted from the bodies, and brought with the rest of the Vietnamese to the hospital at Quang Ngai.

Thompson subsequently reported the massacre, whilst it was still occuring, to his superiors. The cease-fire order was then given.

Kept in the dangerous OH-23 Raven Helicopter missions, which some considered punishment for his intervention and the subsequent media coverage, Thompson was shot down a total of five times, breaking his backbone on the last attack. He suffered psychological scars from his service in Vietnam through out the rest of his life.

Exactly thirty years later, the three were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.


Thompson and Colburn returned to the village in My Lai, where they met with some of the villagers saved through their actions — including the 8 year old Do Hoa pulled from the irrigation ditch. They also dedicated a new elementary school for the children of the village.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson,_Jr.

Though his acts are now considered heroic, for years Thompson suffered snubs and worse from those who considered him unpatriotic.

Fellow servicemen refused to speak with him. He received death threats, and found animal carcasses on his porch. He recalled a congressman angrily saying that Thompson himself was the only serviceman who should be punished because of My Lai.

"He was treated like a traitor for 30 years," Angers said. "So he was conditioned to just shut up and be quiet. Every bit of information I got from him, I had to drag it out of him."

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louis...s-22/1136568553158920.xml&storylist=louisiana

"Blessed are they which are persecuted
for righteousness' sake: for
theirs is the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 5:10

"Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy"
Matthew 5:7
 
I remember My Lai when it happened and Lt. Calley but I had never heard the story either. Also found this:

March 19, 2001

MY LAI, Vietnam (Reuters) - Do Ba is now 42, but to Larry Colburn he will always be the 9-year-old boy he saved from the most notorious massacre of the Vietnam War.


Ba was one of 11 Vietnamese villagers whom Colburn -- then 18 -- and two crewmates from a U.S. army helicopter risked their lives to save on March 16, 1968. A search-and-destroy mission by Charlie Company of the Americal Division had degenerated into a mass murder of civilians, 123 of them children under age 5.

Colburn, from Canton, Georgia, and pilot Hugh Thompson, from Lafayette, Louisiana, were reunited with Do Thursday for the first time since 1968 when they shared the same flight en route to a commemoration ceremony at My Lai.

"After 33 years of thinking of him every day, it's just extraordinary to see him again, truly extraordinary," said Colburn, who was with wife and his own 9-year-old son.


Despite Colburn's hopes, Ba, whose mother and two younger sisters were killed in the massacre, still remembers clearly.

"I was terrified," he said. "So I pretended I was dead when a man came and picked me up for the first time. But he did the same thing again, a second and third time and I thought he was trying to rescue me, so I moved."

The My Lai veterans came back to the village to inaugurate a Peace Park sponsored by the Quakers of Madison, Wisconsin. Together they planted 50 trees leading to a memorial pagoda.


http://www.countryjoe.com/vietarchive.htm#2
 
Wow. Certainly a terrible situation. The soldiers in the situation were told these were VC, and expecting a big attack?

War is hard, and even harder to judge. My uncle in WWII lobbed mustard gas at the Germans and Italians in N. Africa, Siscily and Italy. Was he wrong for it? That, today, is considered a WMD! He told me once that he killed untold thousands of enemy soldiers.

He is my hero! War is hard, and even harder to judge.
 
Thanks Hollow. I remember doing a report on all this in 1973 for a class at school. Especially then while the war was still raging, there was a kind of attitude that although Thompson was "technically" right, that somehow he wasn't a team player for "ratting out" Medina and Calley. Kind of like a cop who refuses to go on the take, and honors his oath rather than just go along.

I would like to think I would have acted with similar priniciples.

I mentioned this incident to my Dad once around this time, in one of our rare conversations before he died, and he just looked at me and said that I was crazy if I thought that this was an isolated incident in war. He then mentioned to me the matter of 300 Korean civilians in a place near Sachari (guessing on the spelling) Korea, who had been crowded into a railroad tunnel and then had the tunnel blown up.

I knew he had been over there for two years, but did not ask for details and he didn't volunteer any...

Norm
 
Thanks for posting that.

Jeremiah the prophet was thrown into a muddy well because he truthfully told the people of Judah that they wre going to be wiped out. He was considered "unpatriotic". Had they listened and repented, the nation may have been spared.

Not knowing the details of any given situtation, I would say that the massacre of innocent civilians is never in the best interest of any nation.The ones who try and stop it are the real patriots. If we don't like terrorism used against us, we should never stoop to that level our selves.

If we have to lose what we are as a nation in order to "preserve" our nation, what did we preserve?

:(


Tom
 
I'm too young to remember these times, and I've said that to give a sense of my wisdom level. I'm not trying to say I know what I'm talking about here.

My wife's dad was there and tells lots of stories. Stories of 5 year olds carrying bombs into restaurants full our our guys and blowing themselves up. Stories of ladies with bundled babies wrapped with explosives taking our guys out. Stories of the S. Vietnamese side of his airbase and some things they did to the locals over there to get 411. None of this stuff is nice. Dink (my father in law) says many kids were shot approaching the gate of the facility, or the troop carrying truck.

So, I have a problem comparing these two guys who did this terrible thing to dirty cops. Lets face up to the fact that during war atrocities happen very regularly and even the best soldier takes part. The media has corrupted our vision of war and soldiery to the point we can't fight wars anymore. Have we all forgot how Sherman subdued the south?

Some of my grandads other brothers fought in the Pacific during WWII and they have told some stories of burning whole villages "suspected" of aiding the Japanese. Were these guys like bad cops? They were some of the greatest generation. They are heroes too.

I really respect Thompson for taking a stand, don't get me wrong. I don't think of him as a rat. But those other guys were fighting a war. This happened a lot, I bet, and Thompson just wasn't there to break it up, so it didn't get reported.

I think they were all heroes. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?
 
aproy1101 said:
Lets face up to the fact that during war atrocities happen very regularly and even the best soldier takes part.

Nope. The best soldier doesn't take part. The best soldier does like this guy and the soldiers who reported the Abu Gharib abuse who thought it was wrong.



For sure stuff like this happens in war a lot. But while I understand why bad stuff like that happens, and think even decent people can do if the circumstances are right, I don't think as much as of the people who sink to the level of the enemy as I do those who can do their job and still retain their humanity and compassion in such extreme circumstances. I doubt I would be able to.

However I think we do the guys in the armed forces a disservice by saying everybody does it. I think the vast majority of soldiers would not do inhumane things, and when we make excuses for the ones that do bad things we fail to recognize the majority of good people that are serving.
 
I didn't say everyone does it. I said it is common. And I don't believe that if a soldier acts as you yourself say you might that he is not a hero. I think these gentlemen are to be revered, but I also think that the others weren't happy about the day they had ahead of them, but did their duty as it was ordered of them. What do you think of our boys today who open fire on a car that isn't following orders then turns out to be innocent civilians? Think of what they must live with. I don't envy them, but I appreciate their situation and their sacrifice.

Edited. Patton said it is not the point of war to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his.
 
aproy1101 said:
Wow. Certainly a terrible situation. The soldiers in the situation were told these were VC, and expecting a big attack?

Some killed were very young children - even babies.

War is hard, and even harder to judge. My uncle in WWII lobbed mustard gas at the Germans and Italians in N. Africa, Siscily and Italy. Was he wrong for it? That, today, is considered a WMD! He told me once that he killed untold thousands of enemy soldiers.

The only documented mustard gas casualties from WW II, according to both sides, were Americans killed in Italy when a ship containing mustard gas rounds was bombed.

U.S. "Chemical Warfare" units were primarily used to fire smoke projectiles, a critical military tactic, particularly in the attack. Members of some such units were converted to infantry, artillery, or armor when personnel shortages appreared in late 1944 and early 1945 in the European Theater.


War is barely-contained savagery. It is well documented (and discussed extensively in popular accounts) that prisoners in significant numbers were murdered by both sides. I have interviewed WWII vets - U.S., UK, and German - who murdered prisoners. At the time, they saw their actions as necessary or as justified retaliation.
 
You bring a lot of real world knowledge to the table for digestion and we thank you as always, Thomas. These are hard things. I've always thought war makes the worst of us.


munk
 
My uncle Ray served as a chemical mortar specialist. He lobbed mustard gas at the Germans and Italians in Africa, Siscily and Italy. He saw the devastation caused by his shells. They were not normal mortar shells. They weighed 50lbs each. I am not making these things up. They came straight from his mouth. I am sorry but you are incorrect in this instance, Thomas.
 
You brought up Sherman...

proves my point, sort of.

What did the Union have to do to preserve said Union? Suspend the writ of Habeous Corpus, throw people in jail without charging them, supress free speech, etc. 650,000 soldiers died, and who knows how many civilians, plus lives displaced, property destroyed, etc. For what? To see to it that "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people should not perish..."?

The gettysburg address, to my mind, is one of the most ironical, fanciful, and rediculous pieces of verbiage ever spoken on this continent. The Southern states had voted to secede. I guess they made the mistake of not having the UN verify the results!

What was preserved? The over reaching federal goverment we have today is the bloated child of that war...

The end does not justify the means, although I fear that many in our nation believe it does.

Hollow is right. The best soldiers do not take part. They may be heroes at other times, but blowing up helpless civilians in a tunnel is not an heroic act. it is the act of cowards.

I wasn't there, and have never been "there". maybe, probably, I would fail too. I wouldn't want to be called a hero though.

Shooting a car that fails to obey orders is far different. Shooting a child running at you, after other incidents when they have carried bombs is different.

Terrorising is bad, no matter which side does it. The bombing of Dresden in WWII was an abomination.

We are a guilty, and therefore, a fearful people. fearful people lie, cheat, and do dishonorable things to survive, often un necessarily, at that. Brave (and wise)people fight their wars vigorously, win, and go home, dong as little damage as possible.

I do think that we as a nation strive, in general, to do just that. Our record is not perfect. Instead of trying to deny our faults, let's just admit them, apologize, rectify them, and move on to an honorable victory.

I hope and pray no one ever thinks I and my family need to die in order to "send a message".

Tom
 
There are a few occasions thru life when one feels truly humble.
This is one of them.
Thank you HD!
 
I can totaly see your points that these acts are not honorable. I just feel that if a person were a soldier during a war and they had no clear idea of who the enemy was there would inherently be lots of unnecessary killing. Some things in war just aren't honorable. Determining "helpless civilians" from combatants can be difficult and time consuming.

Do you think there are any of these perfectly honorable soldiers you are talking about? How about Washington, Grant, Lee, Patton, Eisenhower, MacArthur, or even my uncle Ray, or what about Norm's dad.

Why didn't they want to talk about those memories. Was it because the entire time they were scared of dying. From my discussions with Ray, no, it was the killing. The constant senseless killing. Stalking through a city and clearing houses for the 16th hour straight and killing an entire family cowering in a corner of their living room before you even knew what you were doing. My uncle Ray remembered many groups of dead unarmed germans laying inpiles in the ditches.

Are you seriously going to compare these men to dirty cops? That's wrong.
 
Hooah. Rest in piece, Chief Thompson.

Lets face up to the fact that during war atrocities happen very regularly and even the best soldier takes part.

I cannot agree with this statement. Would I shoot a child holding a weapon pointed at me? Yes. Would I shoot an unarmed child? No.

The media has corrupted our vision of war and soldiery to the point we can't fight wars anymore.

Rubbish.

Have we all forgot how Sherman subdued the south?

Not at all. He did it by removing Southern farming, Southern supplies, and the little remaining Southern industry he encountered. At the same time, he said, just swear allegiance to the Union, and I'll protect you.
What he did not do, was randomly kill Southerners, even Southern males, he encountered.

John
 
aproy1101 said:
My uncle Ray served as a chemical mortar specialist. He lobbed mustard gas at the Germans and Italians in Africa, Siscily and Italy. He saw the devastation caused by his shells. They were not normal mortar shells. They weighed 50lbs each. I am not making these things up. They came straight from his mouth. I am sorry but you are incorrect in this instance, Thomas.

I'm not suggesting that you "made up" anything.

I wasn't there. You weren't there. It's Uncle vs. every combatant nation involved in WW II.

Wouldn't you expect that the Axis powers, with their extensive propaganda machines, would have made at least one mention of thousands of their troops killed by gas? They sure talked about other real and invented war crimes.

The Soviets don't even claim that Hitler used mustard gas on them, and that front saw war of a savagery not experienced on the "Western Front."

You pays your $$ and you takes your choice.

As for being incorrect, that is part of the human condition.
 
Back
Top