Patinated Opinel carbon keeps rusting?!

T

Tom1983

Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
61
My uncle gave me his Opinel and said if I can refurbish it, I can keep it. I polished the scratches out of the blade and sanded the handle down, cleaned and oiled everything. Looked like new! I put a patina (vinegar) on it and all seemed fine. But there's two points on the blade where rust builds. Of course I first cleaned it, but then it came back. So I sanded it. But it came back again. Rinse and repeat, this is driving me insane. After 3 or 4 nights with the blade, I have figured out that this only occurs when the blade is folded (oiled or not, no difference!). When I left the knife opened overnight, all was fine, even unoiled. Close it and that surface rust starts forming again.

After 20 minutes closed:
https://postimg.org/image/ny16vemap/
https://postimg.org/image/qgmvw380x/

After 2 hours closed:
https://postimg.org/image/wphctccxj/
https://postimg.org/image/8a94sae0n/

My best bet is that my uncle, accidentally or not, soaked the handle in something that makes it react now? Otherwise I'd have no explaination for why the surface rust keeps building on those exact spots again and again and nowhere else. Hopefully you guys and gals can tell me how I can fix this. I don't want to throw away my uncle's knife, that's for sure. I'm new to carbon steel and my other knives were all fine once they had a patina, namely another Opinel I treated with mustard.

Anyway, glad to be here! Thank you for any ideas.
 
It's possible the handle absorbed something that's reactive to the steel, or there's some moisture trapped in the wood adjacent to the closed blade. If the vinegar patina process or method allowed any vinegar to soak into the handle, that could do it as well. If the handle interior is suspect, you might fill the blade well of the handle with some baking soda temporarily, to absorb or neutralize any acid content that might be in there. Might also scrub down the blade itself with some baking soda, for the same reason. Vinegar used for patination must be thoroughly rinsed off and/or neutralized, in order to prevent additional corrosion if it's left on the blade.

Bottom line, carbon (non-stainless) steel will oxidize and rust to some degree, if left completely unprotected. Patina by itself won't prevent rust, but only helps to slow it a bit. Oiling the blade a little bit will do more to protect it, as well as keeping it as clean & dry as possible after each use.
 
Of course, I wiped it down immediately, did not let the vinegar sit. I asked my uncle and he said he left the knife leaving everywhere, on the sink, between veggies, in a pile of leaves, etc. It's a few years old and certainly had time to absorb substances, I don't think I made a mistake with the vinegar here. I filled a glass until the blade (and only that) was covered. I will immediately clean the blade and give the baking soda method a try!
 
If you have a lighted magnifier, you might also peek inside the handle. If the contact between blade and wood is the cause, you might see some staining (by the rust) of the wood inside the handle, at the spots making contact.

The mention of leaving the knife in a pile of leaves is interesting. If it was there long, and if they got wet at all, wet leaves can leach some pretty acidic stuff (I think the leaves' tannins are involved in forming it), which can be damaging to surfaces senstive to it, like car finishes when parked under trees, for example. If any of that acidic moisture was absorbed into the handle of the knife, I could see it possibly becoming a problem.


David
 
Thank you David. My uncle is one of those people who baked the handle to change it's color, because he really wanted a carbon blade and not a stainless one like Opinel offers for the ebony and rosewood models. So even with a magnifier, black is black :D There seems to be no staining from what I can tell.

I will try everything that's brought up. I know such knives cost little money, but as a hand me down, it's sentimental. How long should I leave the natron in?
And how should I clean it afterwards?
 
Tom1983 said:
Thank you David. My uncle is one of those people who baked the handle to change it's color, because he really wanted a carbon blade and not a stainless one like Opinel offers for the ebony and rosewood models. So even with a magnifier, black is black :D There seems to be no staining from what I can tell.

I will try everything that's brought up. I know such knives cost little money, but as a hand me down, it's sentimental. How long should I leave the natron in?
And how should I clean it afterwards?
Click to expand...

Ah, never mind that then. Looking for the staining inside the handle could be convenient in pinning down where it's reacting, but it's not that crucial anyway.

With the baking soda, I'd just let it sit for a while, maybe even up to an hour or so. As for cleaning it out, if it's dry, it shouldn't be too difficult. Shake it out, use a brush, compressed air, etc. Baking soda is 'gritty', but still not hard enough to damage or scratch anything in the pivot. If you notice some in the pivot, I'd just exercise the joint a bit (open/close the blade) to work it out of the way. If the knife is ever washed/cleaned with water, it'll dissolve almost immediately (and a mildly warm oven with the door left open will help dry it out again, if you do ever wash it).


David
 
The baking soda turned yellow where I suspected the moisture to be, the rest remained white. It was a little tricky to get that out, but a toothpick and some compressed air got rid of that. I'll leave it closed for half an hour or so and see if it rusts again, instead of immediately polishing and cleaning everything and making the 10th patina this week!
 
That's pretty bizarre, with the baking soda turning yellow and the blade rusting so quickly again. Something's definitely in there, and it must be pretty nasty stuff. If it's mostly due to moisture, I'd be inclined to put the knife (with blade open) on a tray in a warm oven (200°F) for a while, and see if the moisture can be baked out of the wood. But with the baking soda turning yellow and the rust recurring so fast, it seems as if something more corrosive/reactive is in there.

Might also oil the blade, and see if that helps to protect it. That's a short-term solution, if it works; until whatever's in the wood inside the handle is neutralized, it may continue to be a problem.

Another thought: since the baking soda apparently reacted and changed color, it may still eventually help neutralize what's in there, and may still further diminish it if left in there longer. Maybe burying the handle end of the knife in a container of baking soda, and just leaving it there for a long while (a day or more, maybe several days) might help. Just a thought, but it might be what I'd try next.

BTW, I wouldn't mess with trying to patinate the blade again, just yet. That may be complicating things, until the source of the corrosion can be neutralized.

I'd also be VERY CURIOUS to hear how the handle was 'baked' to a black finish by your uncle. Maybe some details about that exercise are missing, and it might be part of the problem.


David
 
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Apparently it is very common to fry or bake Opinel's in household oil. It seems to be a very popular practice, in Europe especially. And I know for a fact he had done it to quite a few of those knives, with no issues whatsoever.

I will leave it in baking soda overnight and bake the knife tomorrow. Thank you for helping me out here! It truly is bizarre.
 
Seal the handle inside and out with hard floor wax -- Johnson or something similar. Melt it in with a hair dryer (ask first, if it's your significant other's). Make sure you get it into the hinge and locking ring, too -- that will lube those parts, as well, prevent the wood from swelling and binding the blade. If you get some wax on the blade it will help prevent rust.
 
Thanks for the tip! They only have that kind of wax in big containers or bottles at the hardware store and I have no other use for it, so... Is there an alternative?
 
Tom1983 said:
The baking soda turned yellow where I suspected the moisture to be, the rest remained white. It was a little tricky to get that out, but a toothpick and some compressed air got rid of that. I'll leave it closed for half an hour or so and see if it rusts again, instead of immediately polishing and cleaning everything and making the 10th patina this week!
Click to expand...

Obsessed with Edges said:
BTW, I wouldn't mess with trying to patinate the blade again, just yet. That may be complicating things, until the source of the corrosion can be neutralized.

David
Click to expand...
Yeah, I would stop doing patinas. The handle near the vinegar in the cup seems to be the area. You never know.

I patina by wrapping the blade with a paper towel wet with vinegar and letting it dry.

Maybe keep packing damp baking soda in there and changing it daily till it stops turning yellow.


Tom1983 said:
Apparently it is very common to fry or bake Opinel's in household oil. It seems to be a very popular practice, in Europe especially. And I know for a fact he had done it to quite a few of those knives, with no issues whatsoever.

I will leave it in baking soda overnight and bake the knife tomorrow. Thank you for helping me out here! It truly is bizarre.
Click to expand...

I would also love to know the details of this method. Might give a good color/finish and waterproof as well.
 
That will be my approach. The knife was stored in a container with baking soda overnight. I will clean it later and repeat this step. If that doesn't do the trick, I will bake it at a low temperature.

I asked my uncle and here is how you fry an Opinel: You fill a little pan or pot (he used a Turkish coffee pot) until the handle is covered. Some people fry the entire knife with the blade, but he advised to have the blade unlocked and out of the oil. If you leave it boiling for 5 minutes, it will only seal the wood and might get a tad darker, but not much. Similarly to applying hot wax to the handle, another popular method. Boiling it for over 15-20 minutes will give it a walnut colour. Half an hour might give you a rosewood shade and if you leave it in longer, it will burn and look like ebony. Another method is to cover the handle in oil and put it in the oven at a much lower temperature for 1-2 hours. But this also bakes the blade. He says most people do bake or fry the blade along with the handle with no issue (he did not do that). I googled this and he is right, an incredible number of people are doing this to their Opinels.

So that cannot be the issue. Mind you, he did that 5 years ago. He said it himself, he lost interest in the knife at one point and didn't maintain it any longer. But there was no rust on the blade when I got it from him from what I could tell, but of course there might have been some inside the pivot. Or moisture, simply.
 
wow, this is some of the best info I have ever read on opinel maintenance...tom1983, good luck with your oppie....guys, ty for your wisdom. this thread is priceless!
 
I wanted to thank everybody for their input. The baking soda method took care of the problem, it was not necessary for me to dry the knife by baking it in the oven. The blade has been rust free for two days, so I believe there is reason to be optimistic. This was an easy procedure and unfortunately one I did not think of myself. I hope this incredibly simple solution will help more people in the future, who might end up googling something similar.

And for those of you who were wondering about the fried handle (haha, sounds good)... Looks like ebony! I've seen died wooden handles and never liked the color, I like this much better.

https://s32.postimg.org/v5esyr4yd/DSCN1535.jpg
 
This was a fun read. Learned a lot. High fives to David and Tom. Congrats on getting to the root of the problem and successfully (*knock on wood* eeep! no pun intended!) applying a fix.
 
Good to hear there's been some progress (hopefully). The handle looks good; I'd have never even thought of the method used to get it there though. Pretty creative. :thumbup:


David

Tom1983 said:
I wanted to thank everybody for their input. The baking soda method took care of the problem, it was not necessary for me to dry the knife by baking it in the oven. The blade has been rust free for two days, so I believe there is reason to be optimistic. This was an easy procedure and unfortunately one I did not think of myself. I hope this incredibly simple solution will help more people in the future, who might end up googling something similar.

And for those of you who were wondering about the fried handle (haha, sounds good)... Looks like ebony! I've seen died wooden handles and never liked the color, I like this much better.

https://s32.postimg.org/v5esyr4yd/DSCN1535.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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