Patterns or one-of-a-knid?

Deweyknives

Deweyknives

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Nov 29, 2006
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Can 'one-of-a-kind' makers make it,or do you need 'patterns'? I'de like to know what you think as makers and buyers.

I can grind out 4 blades in the time it takes to forge one. But I would think a one-off is more appealing, at least investment wise.

What do you make & what do you buy?
 
I dont know.

My "pattern" is in my head, but so far I always fall a bit short of the design I aimed for.
 
This is a great topic and I hope it generates some good discussion.

I'm assuming by "making it" you are talking about the ability to sell your knives and be profitable. I have thought about this but from the viewpoint of someone that is wanting to sell knives to support a hobby(habit:)). So take this fwiw. Maybe there should be two categories; Usable and collectable

If you design a knife that you believe is a good user, maybe it will be a popular knife. It would be a good idea to pattern that blade so that when someone says, "I really like that knife...Do you have any more with this handle, this steel, etc.?" You can then whip out another one without thinking about it too much because the design part is done.

The collectable market should probably be approached slightly different. Isn't that more of an artistic market so therefore the work that you put into the knife is more detailed and unique. This kind of knife would command a higher price and demands more from the maker. It could be a pattern but since it is artsy it is more likely to be the one-of-a-kind, higher end knife.

If I made a knife and, say....Ken Onion...made the exact same knife but mine was better:D , which knife is the best investment? So, now we are getting into the importance of name recognition and what that brings to you in increased or diminished sales potential.

I think it is probably wise to make more "pattern knives" at affordable prices so that you can get a return on your investments in supplies. Make some of the higher end, one-off, artsy knives to show off your skills and have available to sell to the collector/investor.
 
All the knives I make are one-of-a-kinds. Making my knives this way makes them more collectible and you learn something new with each knife you make. I have to design, engineer and build each knife. This requires lots of planning and materials to choose from. This also give you the ability to be artistic and build anything you want.

There are some makers that have a few patterns, maybe 5 or so and they make the same knife over and over. Even though they change materials for handles or blades, all the knives look the same. For me that would get boring real fast. The advantage is that you can make a lot more knives. Your basically a small production company, but it's easy to get burned out real fast.

The bottom line is you either make a lot of knives and get them out to the public or you make less knives, put more into each one.
 
By the way...what is a pattern anyway?

Is it something you trace around?

I have in my mind a general idea, and I have a knife that I always hold up to a new blade next to and compare length and thickness to...
 
It works well for some one-off and well for some a selection of patterns that pattern-wise, may be repeated, and some do just a few patterns very successfully.
Goerge Dailey does one-of-a-kind high end knives. Yet there is a George Dailey style.
Dellana does on-of-a-kind, and yet there are some things like "Dellana Dots" that identify her knives as hers, though they are all quite unique.
Kit Carson does a variety of knives, but many of his are a variation of what I believe he calls his model 4...a very popular pattern of his.
Tony and Reese Bose do slipjoints based on very well known patterns, and yet, the way the do them, the style of grinding, the finishing, the fantastic handle materials used and the beautifully done shields somehow say, "This is a Bose".
Some folks do one-offs sometimes, and variations of very standard patterns at others....Depends on what you like and what your customers want....or how varied your markets are.
 
I would like to add that doing a variety of styles and types of knives will appeal to a wider range of customers, something for everyone.
 
Alan Molstad said:
By the way...what is a pattern anyway?
Click to expand...

It is a model that is made over and over again. Like the Fisk Sendero, or any of the Loveless, Dozier, etc. designs.

In my opinion, for most makers, having a few standard patterns will make life easier. When you have some popular models, they will help feed the family. The one-offs will help feed the soul. They keep the artistic juices flowing.
 
It is really hard to come up with something that hasn't been done in the past if you look back far enough. Most of the new things I see are a spin off of something old
 
Welcome Mr. Bose,
Well said.
Personal input and making effort still make it unique.

I, for years, was an obsessive Fly Tier. Any "new pattern" probably had been made sometime in the last 3000 years by somebody.....but folks still said, "I invented...."
If it caught fish, it doesn't matter whether someone "invented", or if they made something many years previously made....if if caught fish, that is what counted.....
Re knives,
If it is unique or was "invented years and years ago" it doesn't matter who came up with it....it is the skill applied by the maker and the material and quality/uniqueness of the knife made that makes it desireable.
 
This is interesting..... I have patterns that I will sit aside near the anvil. they are made from kydex, beer boxes, cardboard...... from me just designing and cutting away before I forge a different design. So, I use patterns to look from not to really trace from for the most part. But, I have traced or drew out a blade then cut it out of a bar that I have forged before I thought about making a particular blade. I will forge damascus into bars during winter months and set them in the filing cabinet for later forging or just to cut out a pattern, then use the small pieces for knives or will reforge alot of small pieces back into a larger billet for some Da-Mess-Cus....

Even if it is the same design, changes like handles, grips, guards, and heat treating (clay, edge or full quench, bead blast, coatings.....) make things different. But different or not..... it has been made before by someone.

I like something I read and think Ed Fowler wrote it about the difference in a forged blade and stock removal.... and it came out to be the real difference in the heat treating.... So does it really matter if it is forged to shape, cut out with a drawing or pattern.... I don't think it is as important as the heat treating and having what the owner wants the knife to be used for.
 
I never used to use patterns. Each knife was a complete original. Lately, I have had a lot of people see one of my knives and say "can you make me one like that, but with different....steel, handle, or whatever" Then I would have to trace the knife on steel, or if it had been sold, try to remember what it looked like and draw it. I have started making patterns on each knife I make, and it has made life easier. I have 2 designs that are selling well, and I am glad for the patterns. I can still change things up with the "trimmings", and I will still occasionally make new originals.
 
I make the "one of a kinds" for pleasure. The knives I make using patterns are less enjoyable to make; [repetition is not fun], but are more likely to sell, over the long hall.
I have several one of a kind pieces that I have had longer than I would admit. I have none of the proven sellers.
As a maker, you will want to do both. One to feed the family the other to feed your soul. A knife maker needs both.

Fred
 
At this point in my knifemaking journey, they are all "one off" regardless of whether i want them to be or not:D I try for a specific style and size,but so far, I have only made two hunters that were close to being the same and even they were made from different steels (5160 and 1075). Henceforth, almost all of mine will be made from W2, but since i am not trying to make a living at this, i kinda do what I want. I did however, get my first "commission" the other day for a ridiculously large "Iron Mistress" type bowie.....hope I don't make a dog's breakfast of that:eek: :D
 
All handmade knives are going to be one-of-kind to some extent. You simply cannot grind two blades or make two handles exactly alike. I often like to make knives on the fly. I just get an idea in my head and start grinding until I get to something that I like.

However, it frequently happens that I make a one-of-a-kind knife and then someone wants one like it. So, I am starting to create patterns for some of my more popular designs. It just speeds up the work to have patterns or templates for blades and other pieces that I might make several of. You can always vary from the pattern as you wish but still end up with generally the same style of knife.
 
I've been designing mine one aspect at a time, as dictated by the function/main use of the knife, until the complete knife is on paper. Whether or not this inadvertently creates a near duplicate of a previous knife, or I stumble across someone else's design (back to: Knives are ooooold things which have been done to death) is coincidance.
 
Every now and then I find a knife where the maker was truly involved in the knife as he made it. The knife was a statement of his energy at the time. I have seen it in factory knives where the man doing the final work obviously felt more and put more of his thoughts as to how the knife should be. When we see, feel or hear the knife speak to us about the maker it is truly a one of a kind.
 
Thank you all for your views and inpute!!

Is that THEE Mr.Tony Bose? Welcome to BF. It's an honor to have you here!

Perfactly said,Kieth. I don't think I've heard it any better!

As I was working on orders,I was thinking about this because I've never wanted to do the same knife over and over. I currently have 4 orders for the same model. Not as stimulating as being creative but if it makes some money,you make them! One thing that helps a lot is the fact that it's one of my designs. It's rewarding to know that my vision is also appealing to others. I'de much rather go play in the fire and create. Let the steel evolve, follow where IT wants to go. But if it comes down to making an original model now and again or doing a 9-5 job.............

I think the answer is obvious!! Maybe I'll make 6 of them! After all, I'm fortunate and thankful to HAVE orders!!!

Thanks for your thoughts,
Randy,Deweyknives :)
 
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