How many of you use it, and if you do, what are your opinions of it? I tried it today for the first time, and found it to be the greatest stuff since sliced bread. I coated a 1/16th thick blade of 01, soaked it at 1500o for a bit over five minutes in an evenheat oven, and had no carbon loss that I could detect. I programed it to soak ten minutes at 1250o, and then come up to full heat for the soak. I quenched in motor oil thinned with deisel, heated to 125o. Yeah, I know, I gotta get a better quench oil, but it came out with an even hardness that a file won't touch. I did not soak longer due to the blade being so thin. I then boiled the blade in water, and it came out gray, but perfectly clean. I am impressed.
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PBC anti-scale powder
- Thread starter LRB
- Start date
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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- Oct 9, 1998
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- 75,476
Welcome to Bladeforums!
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- Jan 16, 2006
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I have used it for the last year or so and I have mixed opinions on it. I just HT'd a blade yesterday and still had some pitting to grind out. Overall you will have less pitting but it is not a 100% certainty. I want to try ATP real soon since it can be used for clay coating also.
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- Jan 18, 2004
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I read about PBC in one of Terry Primos's tutorials a few years back. Been using it ever since. Overall I'd rate it a 9 out of 10. It doesn't always get everything, but close. Sometimes it does get everything. I heat my blades to 600, then sprinkle the stuff on over a shallow pan to catch the excess. I give it a really good coating using this method. BTW there's a post you can search for that tells where to get PBS for quite a bit less that what Brownells sells it for (if that's where you get yours now).
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
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I've tried it. One of those things if it don't cover right it causes more problems than not using it. Something I can do without.
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- Oct 18, 2001
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- 20,978
I have found that the best way to apply it, is to sprinkle it onto the blade over a can/pan/etc. It needs to hit some air first before the blade. If you lay it right on the blade it will clump and the unevenness can cause it to stick, even after boiling. Also, your "catching" tray can backfire on you...because if what you scoop from it (to use again) has clumps already in it...it will cause problems when you try to remove it later.
Best bet is an even, sifted, lightly applied coating.
Best bet is an even, sifted, lightly applied coating.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 1999
- Messages
- 9,910
Ive had very good results but I heat to about 600-700f first. I sprinkle it on with an old salt shaker and reheat for a while then take it out and break any bubbles and recoat. That second coat seems to be the trick but I can see that those bubbles could really cause some pits.
Use it all the time here !
- preheat to 600F
- I use those little thing one can buy @ ShopRite etc, fine mesh cup shape with a handle.
- tear off a piece of alum foil, foot long or so, put it down onto flat surface (floor will do)
- get some powder into the "sifter"
- get the blade out, while holding it with one hand, over the foil, with the other , shake the sifter over the blade to distribute the powder over the areas you want to protect
- have a breathing mask on, for good measure
- put the blade back in and fire away
- collect the leftover powder off the foil back into the PBC jar
I never had pitting problems with the powder, but I did have
a SERIOUS one with that liquid compound which I stopped using
after 1 try.
It helps to have blade cleaned (me washes it with soap and sponge)
before heattreating, wipe off with paper towel
After oven, I quench in oil and and then wash the blade in boiling-hot
water, which quickly removes the protective layer and oil residue.
This way there's less smoke when it goes for tempering into me toaster
oven.
- preheat to 600F
- I use those little thing one can buy @ ShopRite etc, fine mesh cup shape with a handle.
- tear off a piece of alum foil, foot long or so, put it down onto flat surface (floor will do)
- get some powder into the "sifter"
- get the blade out, while holding it with one hand, over the foil, with the other , shake the sifter over the blade to distribute the powder over the areas you want to protect
- have a breathing mask on, for good measure
- put the blade back in and fire away
- collect the leftover powder off the foil back into the PBC jar
I never had pitting problems with the powder, but I did have
a SERIOUS one with that liquid compound which I stopped using
after 1 try.
It helps to have blade cleaned (me washes it with soap and sponge)
before heattreating, wipe off with paper towel
After oven, I quench in oil and and then wash the blade in boiling-hot
water, which quickly removes the protective layer and oil residue.
This way there's less smoke when it goes for tempering into me toaster
oven.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,135
Dan Gray said:I broke down and got some it's setting right in front of me now I havn't used it yet though but will soon..
can you remember where that was
Here it is Dan. Just look under HT compounds. Terry gets his here also:
http://www.rosemill.com/
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2001
- Messages
- 20,978
one more thing I remembered...the higher grit finish the better. IMHO, it tended to stick more with knives left rough ground at 60 grit.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 1,246
I just used it on a 5160 blade and got a real wild hamon. I think I put it on too thick so it acted as a clay coat and a scale prevention. Has anyone used ATP yet? I would be interested in a comparison on the two.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 220
I personally sand my blades to 400 and have them sharp enough to cut soft skin befor coating with PBC. I use a large spice shaker bottle and put 3 coats on while reheating between coats. So far I use only oil hardening steel and do edge quenching and have not yet gotten any pitting. I think the secret to using PBC is to get a thick even coat on the blade befor heat treating. Something else I think helps is that I use a long steel handle attached to the blade so that I can rotate the blade in an open ended gas furnace without the blade ever coming in contact with the furnace lining. No chance of breaking any of the coating off and allowing the air to cause a pit that way.
I personally wouldn't heat treat a blade with out PBC as it saves a lot of finish work.
I personally wouldn't heat treat a blade with out PBC as it saves a lot of finish work.
I have had great success with it on o1. I am also of the double coating crowd. The second coat definitely helps. Many times the blade comes out perfect or with only slight discoloration. GREAT protection for those hard to reach places in filework. I should also note that it has been my experience that with damascus it works but not near as well. Still much better than not having it though. It seems to stick in the pattern of the damascus, I believe where the nickel is??? Anyone else had this occur with high carbon, nickel mix? Overall something I won't ever be without until something better comes along.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,258
I use different methods for differnt steels and types of hardening I do. Everyone does, really, but my rule of thumb is:
1. PCB for oil-hardening steels,
~and~
2. Foil and plate quenching for air hardeing steels.
Certainly there are the exceptiions, but this will get you down the road. :thumbup:
1. PCB for oil-hardening steels,
~and~
2. Foil and plate quenching for air hardeing steels.
Certainly there are the exceptiions, but this will get you down the road. :thumbup: