PC question: USB2 or Firewire? Upgrade advice

SharpByCoop

SharpByCoop

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Guys,

I want to add another external hard drive for simple storage alone. I would like to place all my images in there and let my programs run on my internal drives. They all seem to require USB2 or Firewire.

I don't have the latest state-of-the-art computer, but it works reliably:
Athlon 1.5ghz processor, 750mb RAM, Windows 2000 pro, a partitioned 60gig HD (25gig C drive, 35 gig D.)

I read USB2 runs about 40 times faster than USB1 (which I have an existing card for). Firewire is supposed to be about the same as well. You tell me.

Any advantages one to the other? If USB is the new standard, I would rather be upwards compatible.

Anyway, can I *simply* order/remove old/replace new card and go from there? Is there an external hardrive reccomendation you can offer me, or a site that is better suited to search?

Thanks in advance,

Coop
 
If you have any availlable PCI expansion slots on your motherboard, you can buy an expansion card for USB 2.0 or Firewire. I have seen some that actually have both on the same card I believe. I saw some external hard disks at www.newegg.com that have both USB 2.0 AND Firewire connectivity. USB 2.0 is probably more popular and would be more likely to be standard equipment on newer PCs than Firewire...if you ever wanted to connect to somebody elses PC. The best deal I found on a USB expansion was at WalMart...it was a Belkin brand...it had four external USB 2.0 ports and one internal which would allow you to connect to a seperately purchased front mounted set of ports that could be installed in a 3.5" drive bay (it comes with the drivers on CD). Hope this helps.

John
 
Ooh, a question I can answer competently...

Ok.
USB (sometimes referred to as USB1 or USB1.1) moves data at a maximum speed of 12 Megabits/second. This means a 50 Megabyte file would take 33 seconds to transfer.

Firewire (originally developed by Apple and also known as i.link and IEEE 1394) moves data at a maximum speed of 400 Megabits/second. The same 50 Megabyte file would now only take one second to transfer.

Obviously, this gave Firewire a serious advantage over USB, so they redesigned USB and made USB2, which is capable of 480 Megabits/second. With USB2, a 50 Megabyte file transfers in .83 seconds.

What this all means is that despite having a 'faster' transfer rate, in the real world, there isn't much difference between USB2 and Firewire when it comes to performance. You aren't going to notice the fractional differences, so the more important factors are going to be 1) compatability and 2) price.

Firewire, as it was originally an Apple innovation, is featured on all modern Macintosh PCs. However, while it is PC compatable now, less PCs have it. On the other hand, almost all modern PCs and Macs have USB2 compatability, or at least USB1.1. USB2 drives will work with USB1.1 (very very slowly) so if you are concerned about being able to take your external drive to other locations and use it there USB is a better solution. If you only work on the Mac and only plan to use it with other Macs, then Firewire offers a solution that will be universally quick.

If you're looking at this and thinking "I'm just going to use it on my PC, I dont really care about any of this other stuff!" then the best solution is to either go to a good online retailer like www.newegg.com or a local store and simply get the cheapest combination of card and external drive that is of the size you want.

If you're thinking "maybe I want both?" thats also an option, many manufacturers offer 'combo' external drives which support both USB2 and Firewire.

Seagate www.seagate.com
Western Digital www.wdc.com and
Maxtor www.maxtor.com
(in my order of preference) all offer easy to use external drives.

Once you get what you want, you should simply follow the instructions for installing the new card (probably along the lines of remove old card, install new card, install new drivers, plug in hard drive) and follow the instructions for setting up the external hard drive. Generally these instructions are pretty straightforward.
 
John--thank you. Good advice.

BalefireX--first off, welcome to Blade Forums! :) Thanks for the comprehensive report. I learned a good deal and then snooped and found everything you said to be true. (Like you were fibbing??! ;))

Yup, this sounds like the plan. USB 2.0 for me. I saw a couple of combo drives and combo cards on these sites and I will make a decision in the next day or so. As you said, I will probably just stick with the USB2.0

I'll report back in once I am ready or have it up and going.

I would rather trust the trials of real folks than the hype of a website when I am unsure. Thanks again for the time-consuming post.

Coop
 
I'll just second the recommendation of newegg and USB 2.0, they've always given me great service in the past. Firewire works just as well as USB 2.0, but USB 2.0 is more widely accepted and IMO more likely to remain available in the future.
 
I just went through this and bought the Buffalo Linkstation 160G. I just plugged it into a free port on my network, and now all my drives can use it to store data. Plus I can move it between work and home via the USB 2.0 link. I also liked the built in Print server and FTP server functionality. Lots of flexibility here.
 
I've found USB 2 to be a tad faster than firewire with large files. With a large transfer of small files, I've found firewire to be faster. USB2 seems to have a little longer handshake at the beginning of each file transfer, so it tends to add up when moving lots of small files. All that said, I'd go with USB 2. Both are fast.
 
BalefireX,

DAMN good FIRST post :cool:

Agree with the rest--USB has better long term viability. My laptop has both connections (of course I have so many darn USB devices that I also had to get a USB hub to connect them all :rolleyes: ), so when I got a second external harddrive, went with a WD that offered both connections (firewire runs the harddrive and the USB runs the drive's cardreader--without the firewire, I can run the harddrive via the USB link and lose the cardreader functionality). That being said (nice to have, but not needed), if I was looking to upgrade, I'd go with the crowd and get the USB 2.0. A card that also includes firewire would only be an option if there was little to no extra cost (this IS G&G--the one with more toys wins :D )

Glenmore
 
Well, I snooped around more sites, and my father-in-law recommended www.zipzoomfly.com as a source he was confident with.

I bought these:

ORDER CONTENT:
1 x (102648) Lacie 250GB 7200RPM USB 2.0/1.1 External Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** @ $174.00

1 x (130100) Zonet ZUH2205V USB 2.0 4+1-Port PCI Host (VIA Chipset) Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** @ $17.95

Great prices, selection, and feedback, and shipped 2nd day FedEx free? I'm listening!

I will let you know my installation trials next week.

Coop
 
I installed the USB2 card and the hard drive. I followed the instructions and formatted the harddrive to NTSC (?) file structure (as opposed to FAT32 which is slower). The computer recognizes it and I have transferred some data to check.

I used Windows 2000 pro to do this. I could find no option under disk management to 'partition' the hard drive. I looked in every pull-down window and right-click message in that window, and there was no option. So I didn't.

Questions: What is the biggest benefit of a partition? On such a big drive would it be advisable? Does this need to be done before format--even if I could do it?

Any suggestions how to structure my backups?

I know I'm asking a lot, but it would be nice to get this sorted out now before I start filling it up.

Thank you.

Coop
 
partitions have an advantage if you want to organize quickly.

I have my 40gb hard drive in 3 sections... 20gb for my c:\ with program files, 7gb for my d:\ with system, and 12.5gb on my j:\ for music and games...

card reader takes up f-i... have a drive connected to my gmail account(1gb with easy access), and a 512mb flash drive(cruzer mini)...

been looking at grabbing a 20gb external lately, rather than worry about disks at all. when I get my money back from the gov't(have to file my GST soon), I'll be grabbing one... only 260cad.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=18&sku_id=0665000FS10049189&catid=10485&newdeptid=18
 
Post #2, here we go! (still lurking and looking at knife pics otherwise :) )

Partitioning is pretty much personal preference. Ask two IT professionals how they partition their machines and you may get two completely different answers. You could compare it to how some people like to keep all their receipts filed in different folders depending on their category, and others just throw em all in the same box.

That being said, the simplest solution is to leave your backup drives as one large partition (its what I do) and use folders to identify each set of backups. For example, I would create a folder named 021305 (today's date) and put the files that I was backing up today in there. This is not the most efficent solution since there is a possibility that you can end up backing up duplicate files, but its certainly the easiest and it means that you can always revert to that date.

If at some point down the line you decide that you do want partitions on your backup disk, you can do it without having to reformat the drive using software like Partition Magic from www.powerquest.com/partitionmagic

Dave
 
Thanks, VW and Dave!

I am going to do as you said, Dave. Leave it alone and use folders for my data. I do not want to run a separate OS or programs from here. I just freed up 20gb of space to place in there, so everything on my primary drive can run a little less cluttered.

VW that makes good sense what you did. I already have (2) partitions in my primary HD, so I can consider that as well.

Thanks again. :D

Coop
 
There seems to be some idea that USB2.0 will replace firewire around here.
Firewire will not go away because the consumer electronics industry has settled on it for a standard...
Look at any digital camcorder or digital VCR, the have firewire ports.
When ever you see IEEE1394, think firewire. Firewire is just Apple's name for IEEE1394.
The reason Intel came out with USB2.0 is three-fold.
1. IEEE1394 costs about a dollor more.
2. Intel did not control it.
3. IEEE1394 devices do not need a computer attached to the network to work.(Intel makes microprocessors...Think about it...)

Do not get me wrong, I like USB2.0 and use it all the time...
IEEE1394 is also a LITTLE more efficent than USB2.0, so for some uses it is actually faster.
Also(though I MAY be wrong about this), I seem to remember that IEEE1394 can garanty bandwidth for times when you cannot afford any skips...Like when transfering video from a hard drive to a tape drive.
 
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