Pellet Guns

Sender

Sender

Joined
Oct 23, 2000
Messages
174
I was Chistmas shopping for my boys the other day and settled on an air rifle. That got me to thinking, wouldn't that be ideal for an extended wilderness trip or survival situation.

-powerful enough to handle small game
-silent
-ammunition is low-bulk and cheap
-practice made easier with a pellet trap at home
-fairly accurate in its effective range

It would weigh more than snares, but there's an immediate payoff when game is spotted and bagged.

-wouldn't mind spending a couple of hundred bucks for a rock solid pellet pistol or light rifle, any recommendations? The only brands I've heard of are Crossman, Daisy, and Beeman.


I'm thinking a CO2 powered model would be too limiting
 
I have been thinking along similar lines myself. I saw my brother-in-law's Beeman and I just saw how nice a gun it is. It is not like the Daiseys and Crossmans I had. No plastic but real wood, balances like a real rifle and is perfect for bagging squirrels or rabbits. You can get several different calibers to, .177, .20, .22, and I think there might even be a .25 one too. I am thinking about selling my rifle, which is expensive to shoot and there is no where in my area to shoot that is not private or state run. An airgun I can shoot in my basement or backyard. It will be good to see what other's think about this as I have not made a decision yet.
 
Sender,
I think you have a good idea working here, but for extended backwood trips and/or survival situations, I would argue that an accurate .22LR rifle would probably be more versatile and effective. A good quality .22LR rifle will probably end up weighing less than a good quality air rifle, and in these situations, noise isn't really much of a factor anyway. A .22LR rifle does cost more to shoot than an airgun, but, as you know, the cost is still far less than what is required to feed most centerfire rifles.

Please don't misinterpret this as me trying to dissuade you from purchasing a high quality airgun. I own several and wouldn't trade them for anything. They absolutely do give those of us who are city dwellers an opportunity to stay sharp, plus they are amongst the most accurate long arms to be found anywhere. I would stick with Beeman and RWS for my airgun needs. Ordering a Beeman catalog is a good place to start, and I would also recommend giving Don Walker at Beeman call once you think you have your choices narrowed down a little bit. He's their main repair/customer service rep and a super gent to boot. Happy hunting.
smile.gif


------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Take a look at www.beeman.com

A good airgun is even more accurate that a firearm, and its technology is superior! (I know I can't persuade you easily, but if you handle a real high performance air rifle, you will see the light).
 
This is something I'm going to do, just a matter of the details now
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I liked the Beeman rifles but you were right about the poundage! 9.8 lbs. for one of them! That's more than the ancient rifle they made us drill with in bootcamp.

I may end up getting both a rife and pistol.

Maybe you guys can help me out with getting a handle on some of the specs. I'm trying to put ft pounds into perspective, and its like calculating gas milage in liters/km.

Will 9 ft/lbs knock a 12oz Dr.Pepper off a stump? Or will 15 penetrate a 1/2" pine board?
 
Beeman has lots of info. in the catalog about needed ft./lbs ranges and drop etc.
at least get the catalogue for the info. it contains.
as for air guns everyone has a different idea. I have a Kodiac mag. .25cal it is a real hard hitter and +accurate+ but with the scope I put out about $800.00+. it is also very heavy,not my idea of a survival rifle.
Also good pellets will cost as much or more than good .22 ammo.
of all the cal. I think you should look at two. the .20 or .22 for a good spring gun.
the internet has some good prices on air guns
try www.airguns.net for links.
you can spend whatever you like on a good airgun but I think many will aggree that
the cost of a Sheridan Blue Streak .20 cal
will be money well spent. it will be a good all purpose gun. its lite wt. and fairly strong. the sights are not great but you can get used to them,or upgrade them. the ammo
is reasonable to. Cheap to expensive.
if you don't want to get in over your head this is a good place to start.
by the way a air gun IS not quite, you will be supprised. my .25 will rattle the windows!
Good luck,Frediver<><
 
What Bronco said. I'm in complete agreement. Love my RWS mod 45 but for extended trips into the wild, I'd want a little more and I'd definitely go with a 22. I just bought a dandy little 22 for extended carrying. It's a NEF single shot. Cost was $109. Shoots well but how well I'm not sure and won't know for sure until I get it back from the smith who is smoothing out the trigger. But it was easily printing into a nickel at 25 yds and I'm guessing it will get much better with the trigger job.

Now having said all that, good pellet guns are great and are especially handy where stealth is required. If you want to hunt local woodlots clandestinely, then a good, single-kock pellet gun is tht way to go.

Check out this one: http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/bdr9bl.html

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM


[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 12-02-2000).]
 
Hey Guys...

You couldn't be more right when it comes to a pellet gun as a meat getter...

I've got a RWS Diana Mod.48 Side Crank pellet rifle,, and at 1100FPS, it will kill most small to medium sized game in it's tracks...

I've killed squirrels and rabbits with this gun at ranges up to 40 yards with open sites...
Keeping in mind that this is a pellet gun,thats pretty bloody good I think..

If you are going to buy something,, buy the best quality that yuo can afford if you plan on using it for a Meat gun...

ttyle

Eric...

------------------
On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
Back in 1989 or so, I purchased a Beeman P-1 Magnum after seeing it written up in a small review in SWAT Magazine.

I have not went to Beeman's website, but I can tell you from first hand experience, I don't care how much this pistol costs, it is worth it. They were about $225.00 (I think) when I bought mine.

This was advertised as, "The most powerful pellet pistol made." At the time, that was true, I do not know if they have advanced any further, pistol-wise. It is spring air, get it in .177 Caliber and buy excellent pellets. The Beeman Lasers can actually give you an increase in velocity, I used Silver Jets mostly. I hunted squirrel and rabbit and routinely killed vermin with that pistol that other pistols would have never killed, let alone cleanly.

Unfortunately, I had to sell it as I needed some money! Isn't that always the story?

If you are backpacking, it depends on the country you are backpacking and camping in, etc. You might want some more substantial "backup." You guys know that.

This pistol had the velocity to make it effective, most pellet pistols, in my opinion are garbage or Olympic Grade. The Olympic Grade pistols just don't have the power in my experience.

I could bust Certs mints at 15 yards with it.

I have a Daisy Feinwerkbau, .177 Cal. rifle, and it is a pig as everyone has testified! You can bust Certs mints with that thing for quite some distance...good stuff...

I would love to own another Beeman P-1 Magnum pistol and a good Beeman rifle as well.

Goes right along with wrist rockets, "David" Slings (both underrated survival weapons in my opinion) and crossbows!
biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 12-04-2000).]
 
Costas,
I absolutely agree with you 100% that, within their intended ranges, high quality recoiless match air rifles are the most accurate production guns in existance, bar none. The only point I was trying to make to Sender was that for my money, when you combine the relatively limited range, the overall weight and the complexity of an air gun, a .22 emerges as a better choice for a backwoods survival gun.

That having been said, I happen to own an FWB 603 that is the definition of both precision and accuracy. My favorite thing lately has been to lightly tap a roofing nail (the kind with the heads that are just under 1/2" in diameter) into the back fence which is about 30 feet away. Through a succession of shots from the prone position I can consistently drive that nail completely into the wood without so much as even denting the rim of the nail head. BTW, this has very little to do with my shooting ability and everything to do with this rifle's ability to put one round after another throught the same hole. It is truly remarkable. And as Hoodoo says, if you're looking for something to put some squirrels in the pot and don't want to disturb the neighbors, an air gun is a fabulous choice.

Sender,
To talk specifics, I might recommend the Beeman R-1 to you. This is a time-tested, reliable and durable air rifle that gives me about 900 fps in .20 caliber. I think you'll find that 1/2" pine board isn't much of a match for this full size field gun. I made the mistake once of attaching a paper target to the cinder block wall that ran behind my last house. After shooting about 15 or 20 rounds at the target I went to replace it with a new one. Removing the old target revealed a dime sized hole in the outer wall of the cinder block. It was then that I determined that a proper pellet trap was in order.

You may also want to take a look at Beeman's P-1 Magnum air pistol. I think this would complement the R-1 for field use very well. I can't remember if it's available in .20 caliber as well, but I get about 600 fps out of mine in .177. Keep an eye out for specials being offered by Beeman's Five Star Dealers such as Airgun Express:
http://www.airgunexpress.com/

Often times these dealers will get their hands on "blem" guns which afford good savings solely due to some ridiculously small cosmetic defect. Internally and performance-wise these guns are identical to their full-price brothers, and IIRC they share the same factory warranty.



------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
I just carry a titanium .22 revolver and 500 rounds of ammo. I can carry it all in my pockets.
 
Airguns are big over here in the UK. As high or low tech as you like: $100 to $2500. Our gun laws would make you cry. We shoot airguns on the low powered side, restricted, at 12 ft/lbs to shoot without a firearm licence; 6 ft/lbs for pistols.

Target, Field Target, Vermin and Plinking.
Vermin are wood pigeon, rabits, squirrels anong other small game.

Airguns are the best marksman training there is. If you can shoot a spring powered air rifle to an inch, at all ranges out to 45 meters, 9 out of 10 shots, then you are doing well and must have worked hard at it. Being so slow with so much mechanics they are very unforgiving. You need to practice hard. .177 is favoured because it shoots a little flatter.

However, most are not built light. For the lightest package I would still go for the .22lr option every time.

A Ruger MKII is hard to beat. Have it tuned and moderated and its even better. Add a coat-hanger stock and its outrageous, but probably illegal.
 
A Beeman R-1 it is. I'll get that one to 'share' with my son and later on get a pistol. Thanks for all the great help folks, I've never been much of a gun nut as far as the technical side goes. My focus has always been on the operation/marksmanship/cleaning/safety side of firearms, so comparison shopping really throws me because I don't know what the numbers mean.

I really like the idea of airgun practice carrying over to firearm use. How much is that the case?

Sight,aquire,fire right? just more recoil with a handgun or rifle.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sender:
I was Chistmas shopping for my boys the other day and settled on an air rifle. That got me to thinking, wouldn't that be ideal for an extended wilderness trip or survival situation.

-powerful enough to handle small game
-silent
-ammunition is low-bulk and cheap
-practice made easier with a pellet trap at home
-fairly accurate in its effective range

It would weigh more than snares, but there's an immediate payoff when game is spotted and bagged.

-wouldn't mind spending a couple of hundred bucks for a rock solid pellet pistol or light rifle, any recommendations? The only brands I've heard of are Crossman, Daisy, and Beeman.


I'm thinking a CO2 powered model would be too limiting</font>
Click to expand...

You are right about a CO2 gun being too limiting. A good spring power or pumpup airgun is much cheaper to shoot and you don't have to worry about running out of cylinders. My choice is the Sheridan 5mm (.20) pumpup type rifle. They are much lighter than the spring type and much more compact. The one I have was made in the early 60's. The seals finally went on it last year so I shipped the gun to MAC 1 Airguns in California for their "Steroid" rebuild. The gun now can be pumped up to 14 times with a velocity of over 800 fps. 3 pumps will do for indoor shooting, 6 for outdoor target work and anything over 8 will kill squirrels and rabbits. They also put a Williams Receiver Sight on that makes it much more shootable. It is not a good gun if you like scopes. Another advantage of the pumpup over the spring is that you need no special oil for the airchamber like you do with a spring air rifle. Just a good grade of oil for the pump pivots....Bob
 
Instead of the R-1, I would suggest the RX-1.
Instead of a conventional steel spring, it uses a "gas-ram", i.e. compressed air that acts as a spring. It is powerful, silent, and it can be kept cocked for longer periods (useful for small game hunting) without any effects on the spring.
It is a very good air rifle, and easy to use and take care of. Since the "gas-ram" mechanism is self-contained and maintenance-free, it does away with the fuss of recharging a pre-charged airgun.
 
Okay, a few things here. The magnum powered airguns offered by Beeman are excellet, I recently purchased an R9, and find it an excellent gun, and it will take small game (rabbit sized) out to 40 or 50 yards. There is one thing you might be concerned about, how old/strong are the boys?? If they are under 15 or so, the RX-1 and R-1 will be VERY difficult for them to cock. When you get the gun, clean the barrel out with a light oil or alchohol and a flexible cleaning rod(you may be able to find these at wal-mart, or you can use a heavy weight of fishing line looped at one end) As the guns are usually shipped with some sort of protective coating in the bore. After you clean the bore, make sure to run patches through it until there is no oil residue left. You shouldnt need to clean the gun more than every 1-2 thousand rounds, Or when accuracy seems to drop off for no good reason. Lube the compression chamber only when the piston seal starts to squeak, and then only a drop or two.

 
The principles of sight alignment and trigger control remain very much the same regardless of whether you're firing an air gun or a firearm. As GreenJacket astutely points out, accurately firing an air gun can be very challenging as the lock time (i.e. the time that elapses between the moment the sear breaks and when the projectile begins its travel to the end of the barrel) for an air gun is generally greater than that of a firearm.

The RX-1 is a solid choice as well which employs some interesting new technology. Give Don Walker at Beeman a call and he can easily explain to you the nuances of difference between the two.

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Sender,
Here are a few pointers to help you get the best from your air rifle.

Because the pellet takes so long to get down the barrel, marksmanship pricipals are even more important to keep that tight group.

Sight alignment needs to be spot on for sure.
Trigger control is a squeeze; a pull is a disaster. The better air rifles have pretty good triggers but some are overly stiff which just compounds the problems of good trigger control.
Body position and alignment without tension is importand as just pulling the rifle over on target is not good enough. However, a spring powered sporting rifles does need to be gripped firmly - its not a target rifle.
Correct breathing control is a must, you cannot hold your breath for more than 3-4 seconds at a time without the wobbles. Stop start again.
Finally follow through takes time and cannot be hurried.

Pellet drop over distance is pronoused so you need to work out the holdover for a particular distance. Wind calculations need to be made as those little pellets take for ages to get to the target.

When I say that air rifle shooting is the best marksmanship practice one can get, I mean it. Think of firing an air rifle at 30 plus meters as firing a sniper rifle at long range 500-700 meters. All this in you back garden, and its cheap. All the books written about marksmanship with more more powerful equipment can be related to shooting an air rifle. Even the choise of ammunition is perfectly highlighted when you change you pellet type.
If more people did their groundwork with air rifles we would have less people trying to overcome their marksmanship shortcomings with higher and higher tech equipment and larger and larger calibres.

Have fun plinking, but then plan yourself a more disciplined course of fire that you could do every few days and keep a record of your ups and downs. A course of fire could be only forty shots at various challenging but achievable targets, permanently set up. Spent shotgun cartriges are great little targets. Ensure you have a reasonable backstop as the pellets go a long way, ricochete and if they can kill a bunny then they can kill you. Shoot often, but not for too long as it is tiring to keep up the concentration; too long on the range and everything goes down hill.

For live quarry, shot placement is everything. A .22LR you need only make a solid hit. With an air rifle you need to hit the brain or heart which equates to an inch or less. A big downer is seeing an animal wounded. However, don't be put off when a rabbit, though dead, kicks about a while whilst its nerves realise the fact. Hunting skills are pushed to get within range. Practice, practice, practice and have fun.

Enjoy finding your own way, you at least started right.

 
Gamo airguns are in the same league as Gerber or Buck knives. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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