For those of us who are unable to get a CCW due to local gov. What tool would you like to have in your pocket when things good bad. I am interested in pocket sized defense. Would you chose a folder (4" or less) an ASP (or other brand of colapsing baton) or Pepper spray? Why would you chose that?
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Pepper/ASP/Folder
- Thread starter kb0rrg
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
My first step would be to figure out exactly what is legal for me to carry, and go from there. In my case, the ASP is illegal, but pepper spray and folder are legal. As a result, I don't carry an ASP, but sometimes carry pepper spray and folder. They are different levels of force, so I often carry both. Sometimes I substitute one or the other with a high-power flashlight, like a SureFire M-2.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2000
- Messages
- 3,002
speaking in terms of pure effectiveness, I would choose a GOOD QUALITY pepper foam and the largest legal folder I could carry, gives you a couple of different levels of defense. biggest consideration with pepper spray is it has pretty poor performance in the cold. Once snow hits, is when most of us at work go to get certified in the use of OC/Pepper spray due to the fact that it doesn't hurt as bad when we get sprayed.
As an interesting footnote, it was once mentioned by Massad Ayoob that it's legal to carry a MagLite in all fifty states, regardless of size. uhmmm...not that I'd carry one of those things with me 24/7 but there nice to keep in a nearby bag, or in a a car, etc. Speaking of flashlights, I've recently learned the wonderful results one can acquire by using a "Stylus LED light" like a Yawara stick, Amazing how compliant a combative person could become when encouraged by a bit of noxious stimuli.
or at least these are my perceptions, I may be one of the least qualified opinions in these forums on this matter due to that fact that I still live in a VERY conservative state regarding weapons laws etc. good luck to ya'!
As an interesting footnote, it was once mentioned by Massad Ayoob that it's legal to carry a MagLite in all fifty states, regardless of size. uhmmm...not that I'd carry one of those things with me 24/7 but there nice to keep in a nearby bag, or in a a car, etc. Speaking of flashlights, I've recently learned the wonderful results one can acquire by using a "Stylus LED light" like a Yawara stick, Amazing how compliant a combative person could become when encouraged by a bit of noxious stimuli.
or at least these are my perceptions, I may be one of the least qualified opinions in these forums on this matter due to that fact that I still live in a VERY conservative state regarding weapons laws etc. good luck to ya'!
Advise previously given to check your local laws first to find out what is legal for you is very sound. In a defensive scenario, you want to be able to gain time and distance. While no less lethal weapon is 100% effective, The surest way to gain time and distance is with a good quality OC (pepper) spray.
I'd stay away from the foam however. PepperFoam was designed to be a tactical tool for LEO's, to be used on barricaded perps (where they can apply the agent and wait for it to take effect) or in hospital type environments (as a last ditch measure). The foam is heavy and thus, maximum distance is decreased. Additionally, the foam must break down from foam to liquid before in produces the maximum desired effect. I have personally seen instances where the foam was applied and took up to 30 seconds to work. I have also seen instances where foam was applied and the perp immediately wiped it off and threw it back at the deliverer.
I'd recommend a good quality ballistic stream or splatter stream for a good balance between maximum effective range, effectiveness, and minimizing secondary contamination effects.
PS - A good quality LE grade ballistic stream may be effective against dogs and other woodland creatures. I have reports of it being used with varied levels of success against aggressive dogs and camp invading black bears.
------------------
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
[This message has been edited by sgtmike88 (edited 02-24-2001).]
I'd stay away from the foam however. PepperFoam was designed to be a tactical tool for LEO's, to be used on barricaded perps (where they can apply the agent and wait for it to take effect) or in hospital type environments (as a last ditch measure). The foam is heavy and thus, maximum distance is decreased. Additionally, the foam must break down from foam to liquid before in produces the maximum desired effect. I have personally seen instances where the foam was applied and took up to 30 seconds to work. I have also seen instances where foam was applied and the perp immediately wiped it off and threw it back at the deliverer.
I'd recommend a good quality ballistic stream or splatter stream for a good balance between maximum effective range, effectiveness, and minimizing secondary contamination effects.
PS - A good quality LE grade ballistic stream may be effective against dogs and other woodland creatures. I have reports of it being used with varied levels of success against aggressive dogs and camp invading black bears.
------------------
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
[This message has been edited by sgtmike88 (edited 02-24-2001).]
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2001
- Messages
- 1,015
I always wear a Spyderco Delica (all stainless). If It´s Fri/Sat evening after payday (or in connection with any event in town that often attract people prone to aggressive behaviour) and I have to use local transportation (commuter train and subway mostly) I also carry my ASP.
Where I live it is illegal to carry:
-a knife
-pepperspary (or CS etc.)
-a baton (ASP, wood, etc)
-any other object which main purpose is to use as a weapon.
Mmm, a real eyeopener.. isn´t it?
That is also one of the reasons for using a handle with an alias in forums like this. I´m obviously a lawbreaker.
/Colinz
------------------
"One must exert oneself unceasingly and study very hard."
Where I live it is illegal to carry:
-a knife
-pepperspary (or CS etc.)
-a baton (ASP, wood, etc)
-any other object which main purpose is to use as a weapon.
Mmm, a real eyeopener.. isn´t it?
That is also one of the reasons for using a handle with an alias in forums like this. I´m obviously a lawbreaker.
/Colinz
------------------
"One must exert oneself unceasingly and study very hard."
Brian Jones
Moderator
- Joined
- Jan 17, 1999
- Messages
- 7,560
I kept looking up to make sure I was in the Wilderness Forum here, and not Practical Tactical, guys...LOL...
Is this meant as a discussion on what you'd carry in the woods against two and/or four legged atackers?
Brian.
Is this meant as a discussion on what you'd carry in the woods against two and/or four legged atackers?
Brian.
- Joined
- Nov 17, 1998
- Messages
- 3,296
Legalities aside, I'd choose the ASP baton. It has more range than a knife, and I wouldn't have to worry about changes in wind direction(Pepper spray) affecting my ability to defend myself. The baton can do the same(causing death) or less damage as a knife, depending on how it's used. Going by the rules of the law, I'd choose the knife.
------------------
K. Williams
Modern Arnis Student
AKTI Member #A000978
------------------
K. Williams
Modern Arnis Student
AKTI Member #A000978
kbOrrg,
Since you're from here (Minn) Forget the ASP, unless you're from one of the "good" counties. The law wil really hang ya out to dry if they find ya holding. You would be better off if they found you with a pistol. Pepper spray doesn't work worth a hoot here during winter unless you are inside a building that is heated. So it doesn't work on any person or animal outside.
As for knives: Minnesota law is deliberately vague, so weapons charges can be applied as needed. In the woods and afield, river or lake, almost anything goes except for gravity knives or switchblades. In town it depends on where you are and how old you are. I don't even rate a second look for the hardware I carry, whereas I used to be questioned often about yhe same stuff when I was younger.
Why don't you E-Mail me off line.
Dan
Since you're from here (Minn) Forget the ASP, unless you're from one of the "good" counties. The law wil really hang ya out to dry if they find ya holding. You would be better off if they found you with a pistol. Pepper spray doesn't work worth a hoot here during winter unless you are inside a building that is heated. So it doesn't work on any person or animal outside.
As for knives: Minnesota law is deliberately vague, so weapons charges can be applied as needed. In the woods and afield, river or lake, almost anything goes except for gravity knives or switchblades. In town it depends on where you are and how old you are. I don't even rate a second look for the hardware I carry, whereas I used to be questioned often about yhe same stuff when I was younger.
Why don't you E-Mail me off line.
Dan