Pepper spots and full disclosure

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mb>

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As someone newer to the GEC and traditional knife world, I would like to know what you have experienced on your purchases. Have you ever received a new knife from a retailer with pepper spots? Is this understood to happen sometimes, or is it a deal breaker?

If someone advertises NIT on the Exchange, and no other description is given, is it reasonable to assume the blades will be pristine? Would you expect pepper spots to be disclosed in the ad?

I'm not against patina at all, especially on a user. Just trying to gauge and set my expectations, and understand how value may be affected.
 
I've never received a new knife with pepper spots. The knives come pretty well oiled from the factory. Dealers don't usually keep their stock long enough to require maintenance; although there are some dealers who still have knives left from runs off years past. My conjecture would be those older stock knives are appropriately stored.

As for on the exchange, anytime you see "NIT" or "LNIT" you can expect factory new condition. Occasionally a factory new knife wool have some scratches on the blade, but that's just GEC's finishing process and you would get that from a dealer, too. Nothing serious, just lines that you can see if you hold the blade in the right light. An owner selling on the exchange may or may not mention that in the sale thread, but usually they do if they're aware of it.

I won't say "never", but it is unlikely that you would be "had" by someone selling a NIT GEC on BladeForums, or one of the onlookers dealers.
 
New, NIT, LN all should NOT have pepper spots unless the ad qualifies that. It is possible that a knife was examined and not properly put back in the package and that's how the pepper spots showed up..... I don't have a problem with that as long as the seller notes it in the ad. Sometimes, stuff slips by though. If you receive a pepper spotted knife that was not expected, the seller should offer to refund if desired.
 
If a knife has spots, it should be disclosed. With that being said, they will not keep me from buying a carbon steel knife because spotting and patina are inevitable.
 
If it says NIT or LNIT, it should not have anything other than the factory oil on it. Its also ok if you coat more oil/mineral/ 3 in 1. I usually pass on knives with spots on the blade, but peppering on the liner I have accepted. It should be noted and made abundantly clear tho. Unless it is intended to be a user and not a collection piece.
 
I got some on the #73 I recently bought from a dealer. It's from 2009, I guess that's to blame. The knife was also hardly oiled at all. The knife has quite a few small flaws that would make a serious collector angry. Luckily, I'm not angry as it's gping to be an user but I have honestly expected something better.
 
traumkommode said:
Occasionally a factory new knife wool have some scratches on the blade, but that's just GEC's finishing process and you would get that from a dealer, too. Nothing serious, just lines that you can see if you hold the blade in the right light. An owner selling on the exchange may or may not mention that in the sale thread, but usually they do if they're aware of it.
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Glad you brought this up. I observed some of these faint scratches and thought that could be the case. They're oriented in a way that almost indicates use, but the edge looks unused.

Woodrow F Call said:
New, NIT, LN all should NOT have pepper spots unless the ad qualifies that. It is possible that a knife was examined and not properly put back in the package and that's how the pepper spots showed up..... I don't have a problem with that as long as the seller notes it in the ad. Sometimes, stuff slips by though. If you receive a pepper spotted knife that was not expected, the seller should offer to refund if desired.
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Thanks Woodrow.

Ernie1980 said:
If a knife has spots, it should be disclosed. With that being said, they will not keep me from buying a carbon steel knife because spotting and patina are inevitable.
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Yeah, this would not keep me away from a user.

mrknife said:
If it says NIT or LNIT, it should not have anything other than the factory oil on it. Its also ok if you coat more oil/mineral/ 3 in 1. I usually pass on knives with spots on the blade, but peppering on the liner I have accepted. It should be noted and made abundantly clear tho. Unless it is intended to be a user and not a collection piece.
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:thumbup:

ISKRA said:
I got some on the #73 I recently bought from a dealer. It's from 2009, I guess that's to blame. The knife was also hardly oiled at all. The knife has quite a few small flaws that would make a serious collector angry. Luckily, I'm not angry as it's gping to be an user but I have honestly expected something better.
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That's a bummer ISKRA. That's a perfect example of what I'm asking tho. It seems like the dealer should have inspected and disclosed in that case, ESPECIALLY with the age of the knife, and certainly knowing the collector market here.



I can lean a little toward the perfectionist side, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't looking at this the wrong way. The more you pay, the higher your expectations tend to be too. But I guess the nature of any market is not everyone has the same level of attention to detail, and then when you muddy things up with rising values and collectability...well, you just hope everyone pays attention to the details.

I appreciate all the feedback.
 
I would like to add..... I really don't consider myself a collector. I use and sharpen all my knives. The couple I've had that were just too nice to use (like the red soup bone barlow of Charlie's), I ended up selling because I wasn't comfortable using and didn't want something I wouldn't put to use. I should have just kept it and used it :)

All that being said, a few pepper spots would just be the beginning of the long road that knife would have with me. I doubt I would do much of anything other than discuss with the seller.
 
Woodrow F Call said:
I would like to add..... I really don't consider myself a collector. I use and sharpen all my knives. The couple I've had that were just too nice to use (like the red soup bone barlow of Charlie's), I ended up selling because I wasn't comfortable using and didn't want something I wouldn't put to use. I should have just kept it and used it :)

All that being said, a few pepper spots would just be the beginning of the long road that knife would have with me. I doubt I would do much of anything other than discuss with the seller.
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You and I share the same view here. I knew there was a danger of having this debate with myself (the too nice to use part). Just the fact that I'm not 100% sure of what I want to do in this case leads me toward thinking I'll probably let this one go one way or another. Maybe. ;)
 
It's a good topic for discussion. But expectations are no substitute for a clear description, good photos, and communication between the buyer and seller.
 
A seller should always fully disclose condition to prospective buyers. Suppose I list Knife X at $100 and it is truly in new condition. My possible range of buyers would include collectors and users.

Suppose that the knife is in fact never used, but because of storage it has developed some small pepper spots over time. I will probably lose some of the potential collector buyers who wanted a pristine knife with no condition defects. Some users, who want to be the one to put the first "dent" in it, would also walk away. So now I have a smaller pool of prospective buyers. I only need one, of course, so if the $100 price tag is a fair price, it will sell anyway. Or I might have to drop it to $90 or lower to attract the more value-focused buyer who doesn't care about the flaws.

But the key issue is, the buyer should know what they are getting before they get it, and not be surprised.

Another option, besides returning it, would be to negotiate a partial refund due to the reduced potential value due to the condition issue. Rather than take it back and have to eat shipping and fees and re-list it, a seller might do a partial refund.

Personally - I seek out user-grade knives for sale with condition defects (or things like missing tube or missing box). They are usually priced lower, and I don't have the sense of regret from using a brand new knife and immediately impacting the resale value. I know how to fix minor cosmetic issues myself, so most of the time it's a win for me.
 
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I've never received a new GEC knife (from a dealer/distributor) that had any pepper spots on it. I assume that any knife on the secondary market has been handled at least once since leaving the factory, and I would hope that any knife that had been handled (especially carbon steel) would have been wiped down, so I don't expect factory oil on a knife I'm buying off the secondary market.

Whenever I sell a knife, I always think it's better to over-disclose than under-disclose, so I'll note anything that might differ even slightly from what might be expected on a "perfect" example of a new knife straight from the factory. Pepper spots should definitely be noted (and pictured, if possible).
 
A closed sales thread of mine:
NJBillK said:
I received this in a trade and I came to the decision that I would prefer a single tall clip (like a GEC 48 or Northwoods Hawthorne). Due to that, I am letting this go.

I can't tell if it has been used, I can say I haven't done anything aside from handle it 3 times. It looks to have a factory edge. Has one small pepper spot on the clip (can see in the first photo, near the tip).

Closed Length: 4.5"
Blade Length: 3.25"
Weight: 4.8oz
Blade Steel: 1095 Carbon Steel
Half-Stop: Yes
Covers: Jigged Bone (Fantastic looking!)
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If the buyer or anyone that was even just "curious", I would have sent further pictures. But disclosure is Always warranted, anything shy of telling and showing is akin to lying, as far as I am concerned.
 
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I agree with what most have already said. A mint knife should not have pepper spots, even if it is a new/unused knife. A knife with spots that is being sold should be advertised that it has spots.
 
i have received knives in the mail that had developed some pepper spots during transit in high humidity summer months. Taking the sellers integrity and feedback score into account, the photographs in the sales thread did not show any pepper spots. but after shipping there they were. So, since then, whenever I mail a knife I sell to someone, I always apply a liberal amount of mineral oil to blade and springs.
 
I have received one new GEC from a dealer which had a single pepper spot on the pile side main clip blade. Oddly, though I currently have, or have had and gave or sold away exactly 188 GEC knives, the one with the pepper spot was the very first one I bought. And I still have that one. Never told the dealer about it, just kept it.
 
I prefer knives with pepper spots, as long as they are factored in the price. As one primarily interested in knives for using tools, I like knives with peppering as it removes any hesitation from putting it to use. Not to mention they are cheaper. But that's my choice, I want to know that going in. I don't want to be surprised by the peppery stuff when I'm expecting factory fresh.
 
You can call it "pepper" spots, but its oxidation and shouldn't be on a new knife. If from a dealer, its a good sign it was a return or a display case knife. The factories know how to protect a blade, but as soon as a human's sweaty palms touch that 1095...

At shows I've gotten some serious discounts due to "pepper" spots. On vintage custom slipjoints, I always check the interior side of the spring. I got 25% off a custom because of some small active rust on the back spring, which was well "peppered." I use all my knives, and a little folded sandpaper and popsicle stick or a Qtip w/o the head does the trick.
 
NIT or LNIT to me does not include pepper spots. If I want to buy a user then I want to pay user price. If I buy a knife from a dealer and receive one with pepper spots one of two things has happened. Improper storage such as a display knife or it's been a return. Either way I would return it or expect an appropriate discount refund.
 
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