Perceived Value?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
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Some interesting discussion on the Fogg thread regarding perceived value.

Collectors value handmade knives in different ways. I think most collectors value knives more in a non monetary sense, in measuring value from a craftsmanship and materials standpoint or sometimes just by whom the piece is made by. Others place value from a pleasure and pride of ownership prospective.

In a monetary sense it can be more about what’s received for dollar paid or
worth today as compared to potential worth in the future.

What makes some maker’s knives a better value than others?

Les will tell you and I agree, that it has a lot to do with how well the maker has established his position in the marketplace.

Makers can add value to their knives on the primary and secondary markets just by promoting and holding themselves to a high standard in the industry.

• Are Fogg knives a good value at current prices?
I would say so, since his knives sell almost immediately when they are offered.

• Are Fisk knives a good value a current prices?
I would say so, since he’s not bringing knives home from shows and he draws from a hat for right to purchase every time he offers a knife for sale on his website. I have never sold a Fisk that I did not profit on.

• How about Steve Johnson?
Even though at the higher end of his price range, the very nice Ramhorn handled fighter I posted photos of last week sold very fast.

• Collectors, Makers, what are your thoughts and views on handmade knife values?

• In your opinions, who are makers that offer GOOD value?

Thanks in advance for your participation.
 
As both a collector and a Bladesmith I have two very different views.

As a Bladesmith I add the cost of materials to the amount of labor hours and this gives me the price of the knife...this I learned rather quickly as a student in Don Foggs shop. This is how I perceive value.

As a collector it's all about the eye.
If I like a knife I buy it and figure its worth after it is paid for. I have purchased some great deals and some poor ones. I have purchased some knives from names I dream of being equal to, just to turn around and sale the knife in order to buy another one. On the other hand I have purchased knives from makers I have never heard of (even as a Bladesmith) and found them to be great values. Some buy knives because of prestige, some for friendship, and some for hopes of profit. Perception of value is in the eye of the beholder, not on the price tag.

Example:
As a student of Don Foggs I have had access to dozens of his knives, but only purchased two. Not that I could not afford them, but out of respect for him and his work. His knives need to be shown to the world, not hidden in my curio. Both his knives that I own were made for me, one because his late wife carried one just like it, and the other is the sister of one of my Master Smith test knives. I started it the first day of my lessons and have been working on it for six years. When it is finished I will stand for the Master Smith stamp. Both of these knives are absolutely priceless and will never leave my family.

If you buy knives you must first look at the knife above and below the ricasso, then perceive the value in your own mind without a name, then you can add name value.

Make sense?
 
"If you buy knives you must first look at the knife above and below the ricasso, then perceive the value in your own mind without a name, then you can add name value."

Dale, I really like that. Sometimes reading here it seems like it gets to be too much about the "name" or the prospective investment value. Intellectually I know that there's nothing wrong with this for those who see things that way, but for me it's really about the knife.

I have one custom from a gentleman I met at a small local show that I might have trouble even selling for what I paid for it. I doubt this maker will ever be well known and that would probably be the end of it for some folks here. But the fact is that the knife is attractive, well made from good materials and well proportioned, and just melts into your (or at least my) hand like there's magic in it. I'm kind of glad that I couldn't turn a profit on this knife because that means I'll never be tempted to sell it- I know I would regrt it if I did.

Now part of me thinks that the above is a bunch of airy-fairy romantic horse droppings, but part of me hopes I never lose that feeling about knives. Of course, there are plenty of makers who are well-known that do supply that feeling with their knives, it just seems sometimes there are knives that really aren't anything special, but get "appreciated" just because of the name attached- I also have one of those!
 
I agree MVF. I think I have a bunch of those but again, it is not a problem. When I'm gone my collections may or may not provide profits to my estate but they will provide some $ if the recipients decide to work hard enough to get some. the easy $ will come from what currently makes us our living. Heck over time a knife that is profitable today may not be 5 years down the road and I'm not going to spoil my enjoyment of any of my collectibles thinking about it.
 
Two points, there is an age old and time tested addage in the Nihonto field, buy the steel, not the smith. Obviously, the same applies to many collecting fields and pointedly to knives.

Secondly, the perceived value is almost moot for me, the whole process is about justifying price (ie; I am poor) and what is the emotional value.

CB
 
MVF,

The Collector mind set and the Investor mind set are two completely different mind sets.

Collectors buy what the like and don't care about resale value.

Investors buy knives that they can resell and make money. So they can buy more knives and make more money and buy more knives and make more money and buy more knives....well you get the idea.

Neither one is better or worse. Both keep custom knives moving forward by providing the "grease" that keeps the wheels moving.

Kevin,

Value beyond the intrinsic cost of the materials and the cost of labor is found in marketing.

While this can be "pull marketing" done directly by the makers. An equal amount is done by "buzz marketing" among the collectors.

The "market" price is set initially by the makers. The buyers then determine of the "market price" is correct. If is they buy the knife. It is not, they don't.

After that the "Value" is found in the neurons between a buyers ears. One buyer loves African Blackwood the other person dislikes it. One perceives additional value and the other potential buyer does not. Same for things like engraving and scrimshaw. I dislike "Penny" Guards and won't buy a knife with them. Others love those guards and order a knife like that. I believe that has something to do with the slow synaptic responses between the neurons of that buyer! :D

A design or even more so a name is pure marketing. As intrinsically, two knives with the same materials have the same starting value. The makers skill will add value to the knife, the demand for the makers knives will add value.

It is the after market where the water gets deep and murky.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Hi Kevin,

The great things about collections....is that they are yours.

You pick what you want and buy what you like.

I became a dealer primarily so I could sell knives I had "grown" out of and buy new knives.

Perhaps the best thing about becoming a dealer, for me that is, was the amount of information I learned because I started asking questions...from everyone.

Doing my "homework" lead me to find new makers, new materials and new knives.

The first knife show I ever went to was the Blade Show.

You can imagine what a rush and surreal experience it was being asked to be a judge for the custom knife competition at that very show!

Custom knives is the only subject I never disliked doing homework for. :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Les Robertson said:
...Value beyond the intrinsic cost of the materials and the cost of labor is found in marketing...

...A design or even more so a name is pure marketing. As intrinsically, two knives with the same materials have the same starting value. The makers skill will add value to the knife, the demand for the makers knives will add value....

Les Robertson
Click to expand...

:eek: TIME OUT!

A design is the product of the maker's creativity. The superiority of the fit and finish of the finshed knife is the result of the maker's skill and effort.

I can go down to the art store and buy the finest canvas, paints and brushes, the "intrinsic" value of MY painting is equal to that of a Van Gogh. Even with Les and Kevin promoting and buzzing to the absolute limit, even with Lombardo riding a painted pony in a party dress, my art work won't cut the mustard. ;)

The maker's talent and abilities are the steak, the promotion is the sizzle. You can't have the second one without the first, imho.

P
 
ptgdvc said:
:eek: TIME OUT!

A design is the product of the maker's creativity. The superiority of the fit and finish of the finshed knife is the result of the maker's skill and effort.

I can go down to the art store and buy the finest canvas, paints and brushes, the "intrinsic" value of MY painting is equal to that of a Van Gogh. Even with Les and Kevin promoting and buzzing to the absolute limit, even with Lombardo riding a painted pony in a party dress, my art work won't cut the mustard. ;)

The maker's talent and abilities are the steak, the promotion is the sizzle. You can't have the second one without the first, imho.

P
Click to expand...
Right on. The top knifemakers are like the top painters, exceptional artisits. :thumbup:
 
Jose Reyes said:
Right on. The top knifemakers are like the top painters, exceptional artisits. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about the painters part?
I have seen some paintings from top artist that I have had to wonder; What the HELL? :eek: :barf: :confused:

Different strokes for different folks; I guess. :D :)
 
Kevin Jones said:
I'm not so sure about the painters part?
I have seen some paintings from top artist that I have had to wonder; What the HELL? :eek: :barf: :confused:

Different strokes for different folks; I guess. :D :)
Click to expand...

No joke, you are correct. Personal appeal will play a role in what we all collect or consider superior works of art. There might be a consensus top 5 makers but an astute coilector's list may not include any of those. Still, a fine collection and top notch work.
 
Peter,

LOL.....

The picture of Anthony is priceless!

Have to disagree with you though.

There are several makers out there whose work is inferior to other makers work who are less popular. While doing better work.

There is even a maker out there whose work is very sought after and he doesn't even make the knives that bear his name.

Quality should be first, however in many cases it is the sizzle that sells the knife...not the steak.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
For me it is a combination of knife and maker that give me my perceived value of a knife. Where does the knife stand when compared to similar ones made by others, and what position does the maker hold in the hierarchy of knifemakers.
 
Les Robertson said:
Peter,

LOL.....

The picture of Anthony is priceless!

Have to disagree with you though.

There are several makers out there whose work is inferior to other makers work who are less popular. While doing better work.

There is even a maker out there whose work is very sought after and he doesn't even make the knives that bear his name.

Quality should be first, however in many cases it is the sizzle that sells the knife...not the steak.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Click to expand...

SO VERY TRUE. Don't even get me started here.
 
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