Percent of knife makers that can do the whole package? Why some aren’t?

D

Dago Red

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Jun 16, 2008
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i Just posted a queston that I know seems similar and will combine or delete if you all think they should be together. This one though is not about pricing this is about ability. Specifically what percentage of knife makers do ALL of it, make a good blade And a good sheath And a comfortable functional handle?
im thinking about my latest purchase that I just opened this morning and proceeded to just be completely disappointed by. its damascus and the blade really is beautiful. The handle and sheath though are crap. That is where i am coming from

handles: this seems beyond obvious. To me. The handle on this was blocky in the pic, I mean rectangular block. But withiut holding a knife I honestly didn’t think it would literally feel like a block in the hands. and I’ve had some handles that surprised me. This got here and honestly if it had been slightly bigger would have been passable, but due to the length with a decent size hand the most natural way to grab it ended up with my pinky behind the handle. Not a problem except when I say “block” I literally mean sharp edges, no radiusing. i Figured, well I can’t make it worse so took it outside and spend 5 min w sandpaper to slightly radius some edges and already it was much better. It made me curious and I looked at some other knives. a kershaw auto I have for instance has slab aluminum sides and fairly blocky shape, but every single part has a slight angled edge, basically a flat radius (not sure I’m describing it right), it’s comfortable to hold and use. Looking at a few more knives I can tell the ones where they were meant to be used and where handles were after thoughts. my favorite knife handle is a natural antler piece that looks like it’d be weird but in the hand feels amazing. I have or had one somewhere that is the g10 or whatever with all the little random grind spots. I thought before I got it that it would be uncomfortable. I like it too

the cord wrapped I usually hate. I get the functionality and why and how they work on a katana. I think knife makers use them to be lazy, cord wrap a flat full tang and voila it’s a handle. In my had it’s still flat and skinny and while you have good griippiness it isn’t going to feel good to use for a while fatigue wise. I did get one where the maker had made the full tang larger on purpose and the way they wrapped it gave it a thicker center and it worked good.
do Knife makers that don do it just get get stumped at that point you think or they don’t think about real use?

sheathes- I realize this is a skill too, this seems even more common, for knife makers not to make their own sheathes. I don’t think I could make a knife, I get that some blade makers don’t think they could make a sheath, how come they don’t partner with someone then? And would it from an ability standpoint be any more difficult to make a good sheath Than it is to make a blade? Ore maybe it’s about the time it takes and what is best use of their time and skill for them to make a living?

I would rather purchase one without a sheath than get a bad one (my other post is to understand the price point where most buyers figure it’s worth having their own sheath made). I’m thinking leather here but kydex works for some knives and my understanding is it’s pretty simple.

I’m interest from both buyers and makers here folks, I honestly want to learn here not trying to bad mouth certain people.
tjanks
red
 
I think what you're really asking, is "Tell me about knife makers that you think can do it all, and why does it matter to you?".
Quantifying this would be impossible to do accurately. I think you're looking for a more qualitative oriented discussion.
This could shape up to be an interesting thread.
 
There are a few reasons you don’t see many “do it all” makers anymore.

Ever since Forged in Fire came out everybody and their uncle became knife makers. This is both a good and bad thing. Good because it brings more people into the craft which is a dying art. But also bad because a lot of crappy knives have come out of it.

A lot of these new makers want to make cool looking fancy blade, but they place no focus on ergonomics. I’n my opinion, you need to be a knife user in order to be a good knife maker. The more you use blades, the more you realize where curves and contours need to be.

Your comment about makers not thinking about real use is a thought that I have had many times.

Sheaths are a whole different beast. There are many reasons makers don’t sheaths with their knives.

One reason is that leatherwork is a craft on its own. It takes years to become a good leatherworker and leatherwork adds a lot of cost to a knife. The cost increase is not always ideal.

Kydex is an option and it is cheaper and quicker than leather, but it doesn’t look as nice so a lot of guys opt out.

I prefer my blades to be in leather, so I refer buyers to certain leatherworkers. I will make kydex on request but I don’t like it. Also, guys have their preferences on how they carry their blades so it is easier to let them buy their own sheath.

In the end, I think that you have to be careful who you buy custom blades from. You need to make sure that the maker is also a knife user. That will be a higher probability that you will get a knife that is comfortable to use. Leather sheaths add a lot of cost to the knife, and guys have their own sheath preferences so I leave it to them to get a sheath.
 
Joe Paranee has reviewed my designs and Loveless style designs - his assessment of my New York Special is also on Youtube. I invite other makers to post their knife and sheath work here for Dago Red. :)
 
I would add adequate sharpening to your list of traits for the well-rounded custom maker. In my experience, sharpening seems to be an afterthought for most. Out of the 100 or so customs I've purchased, maybe 10 have been actually sharp on arrival.
 
There are many top class makers who can "do it all"

Expect to pay for their skill, knowledge, experience, dedication and perseverance.........
 
It is largely the responsibility of the buyer to become familiar with a particular maker's work before making a purchase. There will always be the piece from a maker that you just discovered that you just have to have. Maybe it's a great piece and it comes with a great sheath. Maybe not. It's a crap shoot without the context of a broader sampling of the maker's work. I think from a buyer's perspective, if you are interested in that piece from a maker you don't know, cool your jets for a minute and do a little research. Check out their website if they have one. See if they have posted their work here or somewhere else. See if anyone else has purchased from the maker and what their impressions were. Heck, just contact the maker. Get them on the phone and ask any questions you have.

Every maker has their own strengths and weaknesses in various proportions. It is rare, I think, the sheath maker who offers knives to go with their sheaths. It is more common the knife maker who offers sheaths to go with their knives. Reasons differ from maker to maker. Some knife makers don't offer sheaths. It would be up to the buyer to then seek out a sheath maker. For some it is a skill issue. For others it is a cost issue, either because their time is better spent making knives which bring more money or because kitting up to do leather work is a whole new set of tools, materials and supplies with the expense that entails. For some, specializing in the skills with which they have the most confidence is more time and cost efficient and brings more profit and less headache. If the primary motivation of a knife maker is to make a profit and make a living then these are real concerns.

Handles are a different matter. It is not hard to design a comfortable handle. The human hand will accommodate many different shapes that all feel comfortable. I think the trouble comes when either the maker doesn't have enough experience or when they are chasing "cool designs" in an effort to bring attention to the knife. Save the "cool handles" for art knives that live in a drawer. You can make very attractive handles that are practical for real world use. A knowledgeable perspective buyer should be able to tell the difference.

My own personal approach is more as an artist. Not that my knives are "works of art" in that sense. Just that I make knives because it is my passion. My primary motivation is to get ideas from my head to my hand. I try to make a business out of it but that is not what drives me. So as a matter of pride I suppose, I like to do all parts of the process in house, including sheaths. But if I'm going to offer sheaths I feel they better be at the same quality level as my knives. I was at a knife show one time and showed a knife I had made with its well designed/made sheath to one of the purveyors. I asked him what he felt the sheath was worth. He said "$50. Now, this was a very nice sheath that took time and effort to make. If I was driven by profit I would certainly outsource sheaths. It would seem that sheaths are not worth doing on an effort versus value basis unless that is your speciality. But as a knife maker, it is an opportunity to elevate the knife/sheath package to greater than the sum of its parts by designing a sheath that compliments the knife and carries through design elements from the knife, etc. In the end, I include the sheaths for free because I feel that a knife should come with a sheath.
 
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i4Marc said:
It is largely the responsibility of the buyer to become familiar with a particular maker's work before making a purchase. There will always be the piece from a maker that you just discovered that you just have to have. Maybe it's a great piece and it comes with a great sheath. Maybe not. It's a crap shoot without the context of a broader sampling of the maker's work. I think from a buyer's perspective, if you are interested in that piece from a maker you don't know, cool your jets for a minute and do a little research. Check out their website if they have one. See if they have posted their work here or somewhere else. See if anyone else has purchased from the maker and what their impressions were. Heck, just contact the maker. Get them on the phone and ask any questions you have.

Every maker has their own strengths and weaknesses in various proportions. It is rare, I think, the sheath maker who offers knives to go with their sheaths. It is more common the knife maker who offers sheaths to go with their knives. Reasons differ from maker to maker. Some knife makers don't offer sheaths. It would be up to the buyer to then seek out a sheath maker. For some it is a skill issue. For others it is a cost issue, either because their time is better spent making knives which bring more money or because kitting up to do leather work is a whole new set of tools, materials and supplies with the expense that entails. For some, specializing in the skills with which they have the most confidence is more time and cost efficient and brings more profit and less headache. If the primary motivation of a knife maker is to make a profit and make a living then these are real concerns.

Handles are a different matter. It is not hard to design a comfortable handle. The human hand will accommodate many different shapes that all feel comfortable. I think the trouble comes when either the maker doesn't have enough experience or when they are chasing "cool designs" in an effort to bring attention to the knife. Save the "cool handles" for art knives that live in a drawer. You can make very attractive handles that are practical for real world use. A knowledgeable perspective buyer should be able to tell the difference.

My own personal approach is more as an artist. Not that my knives are "works of art" in that sense. Just that I make knives because it is my passion. My primary motivation is to get ideas from my head to my hand. I try to make a business out of it but that is not what drives me. So as a matter of pride I suppose, I like to do all parts of the process in house, including sheaths. But if I'm going to offer sheaths I feel they better be at the same quality level as my knives. I was at a knife show one time and showed a knife I had made with it's well designed/made sheath to one of the purveyors. I asked him what he felt the sheath was worth. He said "$50. Now, this was a very nice sheath that took time and effort to make. If I was driven by profit I would certainly outsource sheaths. It would seem that sheaths are not worth doing on an effort versus value basis unless that is your speciality. But as a knife maker, it is an opportunity to elevate the knife/sheath package to greater than the sum of its parts by designing a sheath that compliments the knife and carries through design elements from the knife, etc. In the end, I include the sheaths for free because I feel that a knife should come with a sheath.
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that's a good post👍
I would only change one thing, and it's strictly a perception thing. Instead of 'including a free sheath with your knife', maybe consider 'offering a sheath at no additional cost'.
Nothing is free, someone has to pay. I've seen how you make your sheaths- you don't mess around!
 
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