Pheer Grinder arrived - Review wip

R

Remyrw

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Jun 17, 2010
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I ordered a Pheer a while back and it arrived yesterday. This thread will be a review with pics, which I'll add later today once I get them off the camera.

Initial thoughts:
Solid machine, it's not thin tubing and the flat stock is not light weight. I know a lot of folks were concerned that it is lightly built but I don't get that feeling at all. It's not super heavy duty construction, but I don't see where anything has the potential for unwanted flex in normal use.
The feet have sufficient spacing to be stable and have 5/16" holes that are a snug but generally smooth fit for galvanized bolts. I had to tap one through but that was due to paint in the hole. I used the same on the motor.
Excellent tracking. I used the suggestions folks on here made regarding where the tension arm should be in use (lower rather than higher) and have it positioned roughly horizontal right now. I'll fine tune but that seems to be working well.
Good tracking control. You turn the knob, it moves consistently and smoothly. It's easy to fine tune positioning of the belt.
I only got a 1hp motor due to my budget. My work style doesn't put a huge load on the motor anyway, but I was a bit concerned that I under bought. I haven't done any heavy grinding yet but it seems fine so far. I'll update this when I post pictures, after testing some more.
The paperwork for the motor was included, but Jose was thinking ahead and had the wires bundled with colored electrical tape to match the VFD's wiring. No confusion about which wires go to which, rotation issues.... Just match colors and go.
I got upgraded to aluminum wheels along with the 2" rubber contact wheel for the top of my platen, so I don't have any info on how well the poly's work.

I'm happy with it so far. My only annoyance is that there weren't any wire nuts in the package. No big deal, but it seems like a silly thing to not include when you know the person has to connect the vfd to the motor and you've already prepped and color coded all the wires for them. I had to go to the hardware store for some stuff anyway, and I imagine most folks have wire nuts that would work, but I only had large ones. I bought an assortment of smaller ones and can check what size I used if anyone cares.

Pictures will be added later, I want to go grind a bit and see how she works under pressure. If you have any specific questions you want to ask, or photo requests, post here and I'll see what I can do.
 
Nice price on those. I'll be anxious to hear how it works out. Thanks for taking the time to review it for us.
 
What VFD option did you go with, and what enclosure? I have seriously been looking into his grinders, and not having a whole lot of press out there I have been holding off. The few initial reports I have read have all been good, though. I saw that his advertised lead time is approx 4 weeks, was this true for you?

I will be waiting for your in depth review, to help me decide.


-Xander
 
Ok, here are my initial pics. Starting with the closed box just for Sam. :D
The first potential issue was one of the foot tabs got bent in transit, not badly and I smacked it down some after the first image showing it but haven't bothered getting it flush and bolted. Three bolts seems sufficient.
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Please note that the belt is fully on that lower wheel, it's just a wider wheel than the top one. The belt is lined up with the top wheel and platen rather than centering it on the wider wheel.

I've done some grinding now, just a little profiling with a 36 grit cubitron 967 belt. Initial impression on power was correct, plenty. If I REALLY leaned into it with full width contact on the belt I could hear the slightest change. It took some real effort. That's with it set to 100%, so at least as far as the VFD is concerned there wasn't any more room to apply extra power to maintain rpms. Whether it's got a built in buffer I do not know. I haven't dug up info on the vfd yet. Something I've been told regarding power is that there is a distinct difference between 1hp direct drive and 1hp on a pulley system. Also, 1hp on a good motor like this and 1hp on a harbor freight are not exactly the same either. Personally, I'm perfectly happy with the power I've got, no concerns there. More is always good, but I'm running on a household circuit in a house with cheap construction and undersized breakers. My budget mandated the lower cost option, but it wasn't JUST the motor cost that was at issue. I had to consider the cost to upgrade the circuit as well. The builder for this house was comically lazy and cheap.

The motor is a Marathon Electric 1hp, 1725rpm fan cooled unit rated for continuous use. If you really like working fast you might want to 2x that rpm, I don't know if I can on my setup or not. I have to do some reading. As it stands now it seems slow to me since I'm used to the screaming fast craftsman, but the actual grinding rate was pretty good. The ability to press firmly without it slowing down helps tremendously. I'd say it's about the same rate of material removal as it stands now, at 100% on the vfd. It's just 10x easier to control what I'm doing even at that speed, and I can slow it down for even more control.

Moving on. tracking was just fine, if I pushed particularly hard right at one edge of the belt I noticed the slightest shift but no where near what I get on my two wheel grinders. I'm happy with how it tracks and how it adjusts, nice and easy, no big shifts belt to belt or anything like that. I only tried a few belts but I went from a very worn norax belt he included in the package (along with a couple new zircs for me to play with, an unexpected bonus) to the 36 grit cubitron to a 120 grit 707JE. Tracking was really close from belt to belt and took just a tiny adjustment to be spot on. I hadn't realized how much norax stretch, I originally setup the grinder using that old one and had to slide my tool bar in a couple inches to use new belts. The new ones stretched out just a bit but it did effect my platen position so I wish I'd used a fresh one to do initial setup. No big deal, and I made sure to leave plenty of adjustment room when I did setup, but just a heads up to anyone else setting up a grinder, use a new belt or at least not a worn out cloth backed one. That norax is probably 2x74-75. l:eek:

My VFD is NOT a nema 4, I have plans to build an enclosure for it under the work bench/table where I can adjust it but it's out of the main mess and protected. Right now I have it in a small plastic tool box and will cut openings for the wiring and then seal them. Open the top, turn it on/adjust speed, close the top... Cheap and fast while I figure out and build my permanent setup. I'm thinking an electrical conduit box or something with a service access face, but they didn't have what I wanted at the hardware store and I wanted to get it at least somewhat protected. Here's the official page for the vfd
http://www.tecowestinghouse.com/products/Drives/fm50.html

My lead time was about 6 weeks, but a good chunk of that extra was unforeseen delays that won't apply normally. I am not sure he's caught up or if they created a bit of a backlog beyond the norm.
 
Ok, did some reading through the VFD manual and fine tuned settings. Playing around a bit it seems that yes, you can over rev the motor, but you quickly reach a point where trying to USE it at that speed draws more power than it should and the VFD cuts power to protect things. The settings it shipped with were about right, I gave myself a bit more top room for high speed if I wanted it, but applying too much pressure starts to bog it down, while leaving it slightly slower, in the motor's intended rpm range, lets you apply far more pressure with no problems.
In theory I can go all the way up to 200hz, in practice anything past 100 seems to be diminishing returns in terms of work performed. At 100 you can apply a lot of pressure with no issues, by 120 I can get it to bog down a bit and if I really try I can get it to kick in the conservatively set overload limit. By 130 that kicks in pretty fast, but is useable if I wanted to do a high speed pass with a scotchbrite belt or something, just no hard pressure.

I have a glass platen on order from Tracy and we'll see how that effects it, the reduced friction may give me a bit more upper range if I decide I want it. I doubt I will though.

It is worth noting that the above limits are on the platen, not on the contact wheel.
 
Good review! The frame looks bare bones, but if it works that's OK by me. I personally love my TECO FM50 VFD, it has a lot of overload protection and is very adjustable. Does the swivel adjustment for the platen lock down good and tight, and does it seem like it will hold up well? Is the platen depth adjustable? Any vibration under load? Also, is the square tube the platen is mounted to squashed a bit at the end in the last pic, or is it just an illusion?
 
The platen pivots 360, locks up solid without a lot of tension, just a little nudge of the wrench to loosen or tighten. I'll probably swap out the nut for a lever and put a touch of jb weld on the bolt. The bolt's on the platen side so that works no sweat. I don't see any issue with it not staying as a strong lockup, there's an additional plate in there to help reinforce the spot.
The platen does NOT adjust depth relative to its wheels, something it was supposed to since I am mounting a glass face on it. I'm chalking this up to the events that lead to the extra delay, he's got several different platen setups and I went and combined elements from a couple, that particular element fell through the cracks I guess. I bevel the top and bottom edges of my glass a fair bit so it shouldn't be an issue. The build of the platen is very solid and stable in general. I'm not concerned with it wiggling or coming loose. Multiple screws holding things in line and good reinforcing. The only way you could mess it up would be to over tighten the bolt holding it to the tube until you crunched the tube itself.

No vibration other than the expected slight hum. Nothing seems off kilter or out of balance in that regard.

What you're seeing in the last pic is actually the groove milled into the tool arm. It doesn't extend all the way to the end to allow a flat surface for attachments, but the part in the frame has a roughly 1/3 height groove cut. It's clearly an intentional bit of work, I just haven't determined the exact role it's playing. Nothing in the tube engages it and the lock nut is centered and hits the flat. *shrug* might be a cut intended for a different machine that indexes using that.

The frame is definitely bare bones, there's no provision included for a second tool arm or anything like that. On the other hand, there's nothing stopping you from adding it. It would be easy enough to mount another tube to the left of the frame and below the tool arm lock knob. His normal platen setup has a built in tool rest but is limited in rotation. The other standard model is a 360 rotating model with a tool rest, for a significant cost increase due to the much higher complexity. I don't use a tool rest on the belt machine and wanted full rotation. This way I have access to either wheel, the platen or a small slack belt area. I plan to get a small wheel attachment but otherwise I'm set for now. I imagine I'll get into larger contact wheels in the future but for now this was what I wanted. With the larger contact wheel I might want a tool rest and will weld on the second tube if I feel the need.

No question, this is not a full up KMG or Bader, it's a bare bones machine at a bargain price. My total up and running cost right now stand at under $900 including shipping. Obviously my hands on time is still minimal, but I'm happy with it so far. The platen thing is a minor annoyance and don't get me wrong, it's 100% useable as it is now. It's got the edges slightly broken to be easy on belts when grinding plunges and they're nice and straight and parallel. I just happen to be a fan of glass for the reduced friction. I will be using the grinder over the next few days and we'll see whether I decide to actually go ahead with the glass when it arrives.
 
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just relooked at the last pic. I'm not sure if you were talking about the groove or the face now. The face is just cut at a slight angle and ground smooth, makes it look funny from that angle.
 
I think it's that as you say the face of the tooling arm is cut at a slight angle. That makes sense how it looks, now. I wonder why?
 
I doubt there's any specific reason. Might just have been an angle grinder cut and then cleaned up but not made square. It doesn't effect anything, purely cosmetic. The other end is a square cut, also cleaned up so it isn't sharp edged and is easier to insert into the frame. I'm going to bed now and plan to do a bunch of grinding tomorrow so I'll have more of a feel for how it really works while making knives tomorrow evening. I can see myself using up the coarse belts I have on hand since I only have 2x50 grit cubitrons and 2x 80 grits. One of the 50's has already had the new taken off it with all my fooling around today, it's hardly fresh. Having me take a bar of steel and shove it full width against the platen with all my weight on it over and over while I play with VFD settings tends to do that. :rolleyes: It was still cutting decently though, so I'll use it to finish profiling the last few blades that need that and then start with the fresh one for bevels. I have a 36 grit 984 cubitron II belt on the way from Tracy to try out and once that arrives I'll give it a try and decide which I want to buy more of. I basically bought a sampler selection and will put in a working order once I see what works for me, since there are so many different options from what I had with the 2x42.
 
Remyrw. I subscribed to this thread due to the fact that I am looking for a new grinder. I have a Wilton. With the 10" wheel and platen. Just gets irritating having to stop on it and switch to the wheel/platen. Hence the need for a new grinder. So let us know how it is and thanks for the time you are spending doing this WIP.
 
When looking at pictures of the Pheer grinder, I really can't help but be struck by how small and insubstantial the tooling arms appear to be. I know you said they seem strong enough to handle normal operational stresses, but the fact that one of the feet got bent during shipment simply adds to structural integrity concerns. Sure, a three-point mount is adequate... but what does that tell us about the strength of the steel used in the structure. Half inch steel would almost certainly not have arrived bent like that from shipment stresses.

Perhaps it's just that most grinders are over-engineered (made TOO tough) and so we've come to expect it. On the other hand, we don't really have any measurable guidelines for how much stress a frame or a tooling arm needs to be able to endure.

When I look at the Pheer setup I can't help but compare it to trailer hitches (class I, II, III, IV, and V). The cheapest hitches (I) have a tongue weight of 250 lbs and used small (1") tubing, which reminds me of the Pheer tubing. This is probably an inaccurate comparison, however, because I suspect the tubing (and welding) used on trailer hitches is made to endure more stress.

I guess it comes down to whether it's possible for us to determine how much stress the frame and the arms will need to endure.

- Greg
 
Looks great Remy, nice score. Machine looks solid. There was none of these grinders or GIB or kits or anything when I bought my KMG years ago.
 
Hey Remy,

Thanks for posting your impressions and report! I've been waiting to hear more particulars about this machine ever since Zaph1 and Salem brought them to our attention. Looks like you're in "business." It's nearly plug and play, it does what you want it to, and it's affordable. Sounds good. Sure its not a Cadillac. Bare bones economy cars will get you down the road too.

Must confess, I'm a little surprised to hear about cutting corners with slightly shoddy craftsmanship re the metal cuts, even though it doesn't effect performance. Seems like making cuts true wouldn't increase costs. Well now that I think about it, maybe it could a bit. Still, stuff like that can make an impression and leave one wondering about stuff like...

How are the welds?

I can't remember if I've seen this, did it come painted or did you do that?

I don't quite get your reference about mounting the tracking wheel low. How would you mount it higher? Or is changeable by where the lower end of the spring is secured?

Did you have to fuss much to get the frame and motor mounted so the drive lined up true and square with the tracking idler and tool arm idlers? Maybe he included a paper template to layout the holes in your base? If not, you might suggest it when you give him feedback about the missing wire nuts along with appreciating the otherwise plug-and-play organized wires.

I wonder about the six week lead time. Seems like that has been an ongoing issue. If these machines take off in the market place, it is likely that fulfilling orders could become more of a challenge, not less. Hmmm, actually perhaps that one little bit of news (having to wait so long) will be a self-pruning mechanism that will keep orders somewhat minimized and within somewhat manageable production parameters. Or, I wonder, did you pay up front with your order? Maybe he's having to order parts once he gets X number of orders and then has to wait their arrival before fulfilling orders? If that's the case, once he got over that hump this little machine could really take off. He could then stop building them like one-offs and get more of an assembly line type operation going.

Thanks again for taking the time to post about this. A lot of folks have been eager to hear more about this VW of the turnkey variable speed knife belt grinders!

All the best, Phil
 
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Greg, I hear what you're saying, but I honestly think it's just a matter of many others being over built or using the larger sizing as a follow the leader thing. There's a certain logic to it, since you would want compatibility and there's no harm in going bigger for the arm. I also think there's a certain amount of compensation for different design geometry. The pheer doesn't leave a whole lot out of the frame compared to the KMG in most configurations. There's far less leverage to deal with.

As for damage in transit, anything can get beat up in shipping, and the feet are actually lighter steel than the frame itself. They're welded on and probably half the thickness of the uprights. I can understand the concern, but I just don't see how normal use puts much stress on things where a beefier construction would help. We don't twist on our grinders, we don't shove sideways with a lot of force, we might push downward a bit and straight into it.

I don't think it's a real game changer or anything, it won't put the KMG and Bader's in the trash or anything like that. It just offers a lower cost alternative. A mid step between the two wheel machines and the higher end stuff.

If you really wanted more strength he does offer a reinforcement package. Basically heavy duty plate welded onto the frame to turn it into a tank. At that point I'm not sure I wouldn't go for a KMG since the price starts getting very close, but it's an option. I imagine if you want a larger diameter tool arm setup he would be more than happy to build it that way, but the only reason I'd bother would be to share tool arms with another machine with that sizing.

Unfortunately, haven't gotten out to grind yet today, but soon.
 
This thread should be retitled "Pheer Phactor". I like the simplicity and bare bones look of it.

Rick
 
Phil, you posted while I was typing.

He had some stuff come in in the family and my grinder got delayed a while, so it wouldn't surprise me if things were a bit rushed after that.
No paper template, but there were index marks to line up with and due to the design it's pretty easy to eyeball it and put a mark where you want to drill. I thought about being more precise but basically just made sure things were square and visually lined up. I didn't get perfectly in line in the end, but that's my fault. Total of 8 holes, 4 of which I just drilled right through the holes in the feet, putting a bolt through each time so nothing wiggled. Then i refined the position of the motor and checked that it was square to the grinder and marked the holes for that. A template would have been nice, but we're not talking a complex setup or anything. The failure to line up perfectly comes down to the really difficult position to drill in. I'd thought about mounting it all to a heavy sheet of plywood and got lazy. I should have done the plywood just, it would have been faster not involved me climbing around behind my bench to put some motor screws in. I really need to vacuum back there. :eek:

I did pay up front, and yes, a bit nervous making but at that point several other folks had theirs and were happy so I took the plunge. I have no idea what his work flow situation is like so I couldn't possibly comment.

The tracking wheel is on an arm with a wide range of motion up and down. With different setups you might have it higher or lower in its arc when in use. Several very experienced folks suggested that lower is better in terms of holding tracking the best, both for the increased tension and the different geometry. The arm on the pheer is pulled upward, not pushed, and the available range is nearly 90 degrees with tension since there are multiple holes to attach the spring on the back of the frame.

eta weld info.
The welds look good. Not machine perfect or master welder smooth, but steady and not just tack welded. My photography makes them look a lot rougher than they are, just a trick of the light.

Anyway, enough typing, off to grind. :)
 
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