phosphoric acid

peter nap

peter nap

Joined
Nov 27, 1999
Messages
3,745
Anyone know where to find phosphoric acid and how it is applied to knife and hatchet steel?
 
No Rodger. It's the black stuff you see on a lot of military and imported Machetes and axes. It prevents rust.

The stuff you are thinking of is Aquafortis
It's made by mixing Nitric acid and another type either Sulfuric or Hydrochloric (I use Hydrocloric)....

Dissolving iron in it and cutting it with water

After it dries, use heat to bring out the color and neutralize with baking soda (or other things)
I have a thread on how to make the stuff if you want a link
 
Coke Cola contains phosphoric acid, also Naval Jelly is phosphoric acid in a gel.But these contain small amounts useful for removing light rust, I don't know if they will etch damascus blades after long exposure .......Hydrochloric acid ( muriatic) can be found in hardware stores since it is used to clean concrete. Other than that a chemical supply house......You beat me to my posting Peter but phosphoric acid does not prevent rust. Are you thinking of Parkerizing ?? that's used on guns and other things to prevent rust. It is zinc or manganese phoshate .I think some of the companies that plate guns also do Parkerizing.
 
I have several gallons of Muriatic(Hydrochloric acid) and at least 1 gallon of Nitric. I use these to make Aquafortis

What I'm after is what is referred to by the military as phosphoric acid. It looks like Parkerizing and may well be under a new military title.

There is a product called Ospho that is a phospheric acid derivative that is marketed to dissolve and prevent rust on automobile bodies prior to painting.

It works very well as far as rust is concerned. The rust just won't form after it's applied. I wanted the darker color though and you don't get it with Ospho unless it is applied over rust. On clean steel it just turns a grayish color.

I wanted to try this on some of the new hatchet heads rather than etch them in Ferric.

Some of the gun builders are using the Ospho to get an antique blue but they feel it's too light also and are having problems getting the rust to start again after using it.

I may pick some up tomorrow, rust a hatchet head, apply the Ospho and see what happens.
 
Peter, I have a bottle of the military concentrate that I bought years ago. I guess it's still good- I never did anything with it. What's more, I probably never will. :D It is a "Hazardous" chem. so it has to be ground shipped. PM or email me, and I'll get you the particulars of the stuff when I dig them up. I'd like to see somebody get some use out of it. :)
 
From what I read could you be thinking of "French Gray" finish?
French Gray is used on high grade English custom guns and is not much more than a multi layer rust blue with the color removed using Phosphoric acid. I have been told that it is somewhat rust resistant.
 
Hey Guys....

Be REAL careful with this stuff,, it's Extremely nasty!!!!

I've got 5 gallons of it,,and don't know what the F to do with it....
Don't know how to get rid of it properly...

ttyle

Eric...
 
Pete, I think they are trying to duplicate the French Grey without the work.
Normark, save it and we can make relish for the Hanover Sheriff's picnic. :footinmou
 
Hey Peter...

Hmmmmm.:)

I really wish I knew what to do with it Peter....

My dad used it for plating quite some time ago,, I'd REALLY like to get rid of it....

Maybe I should start a parkerizing service Eh !!

ttyle

Eric....
 
Peter,

I never got your email, but I did send you one instead. Let me know if it didn't get there either. (My ISP sucks!) We can try the PM thing, too.

What I have is a quart bottle of "Military Refinish Concentrate". The contents are described as: nitric acid, phosphoric acid and zinc with no concentrations or other ingredients listed. The single-page instruction sheet says that it is to be used in a 2-3% solution in water, preheated to 170-180 Fahrenheit.

If this sounds like what you're looking for, or even something you'd like to try out, get me your address and I'll get it out to you. I cannot foresee the day I'll be doing anything with it. :)
 
peter nap said:
Anyone know where to find phosphoric acid and how it is applied to knife and hatchet steel?
Click to expand...

the military use to use what was called causealene < spelling
but it sounds like (cause a' lean) parts were always covered with this stuff.
wraped with a brown waxed paper

but I think your looking for something else... :)
 
I think you are talking about cosmoline Dan...(My spelling may be wrong also) It's just a mixture of beeswax and some form of grease. I have the receipt somewhere, just have to look.
 
FYI -
Cosmoline: "A combination of grease, shellac and beeswax with copper sulfate added as a corrosion inhibitor. It is initially heated and thinned with alcohol during the mixing state, then is allowed to cool and set up."

The main thing I know about is this stuff - after trying to remove it from some WWII items "encased" in this stuff (typically of the military mind set ALL kinds of things were preserved with this stuff from WWII thru at least the SE Asian Wars including entire Jeeps, firearms, et al) is what an old Gunny Sgt taught me p the best solvent was gasoline - dangerous as all get out but the only thing in his loooong experience (tail end of WWII thru Desert Storm) that would cut this shite without busting your butt. Others may have better ways but this sure as heck worked. (the "approved" military "safe" method for removing cosmoline was boil it off in water - well all I can say is try it - Harde har har!!!!!!)
 
re: Cosmoline - Did a Google search and found this -
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/CosmolineRemoval.html

Apparently BWM (and some others) still use this stuff as it is a protectant from even sea water... interesting to say the least (guess some things just get better with age :D)

He! he! read further and you find out how upset that some of these "yuppie types" are that their Beemer may not be as pristine as they'd hoped for! Guess things really are relative :yawn:

PS I like high end cars - mostly I'm an English car freak but still the "new" guys sometimes just seem to get a bit over wrought (own a late 40's to late 50's English sports car and you will learn all about the evils of "modern" technology - Lucas "the Prince of Darkness" is just a small part of the love/hate relationship of English sports cars for instance - still IME there is nothing like 'em!!!)
Cars owned and loved/hated - 1953 MGTD, 1955 Jaguar XK 140, and my last one a 1968 Jag XKE 2+2 V12 - what a car!!! Still my greates lust was/is for a 1936 Jag SS100 - the ultimate pre-war car - at least in my taste! (I got to drive one once and oh my my!!!)
 
Phosphoric acid is used for parkerizing yes, and it's what lots of old military weapons were used for. It's a Zinc phosphate or Manganese phosphate layer bonded to the surface of the steel. Scott Fulford here had a tutorial on one of the gun boards about this, using Ospho and Pennies with the copper cladding ground off(zinc core in current pennies). Make sure you clean the steel well, and bead/sandblast it before hand. Parkerizing also makes a great intitial treatment before other finishes. The various bake on gun finishes work great if you clean the steel, blast it, do a parkerizing on it(have to clean and blast first or oils in pores of steel will mess up the finish), then apply the bake on finish over the parkerizing. Similar in idea to the Argentine FN49s, which were finished in a method called Stovepiping, if memory serves. Was just a parkerizied finish with a tough black paint/enamel of some kind over it. Believe they did this with their FALs too
 
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