PID Controlled Forge

Judcargile

Judcargile

Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
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I have been an ISA certified CCST (E&I, I&C, ect.) since 2003. I hold the cert at level 1, work at level 2; However, I am not trained to engineer and have at best, made hip pocket decisions in the event of emergency.


I know zip about heat treat.

I am building an forge with a PID conrolled gas valve and forced air. I am not sure that I want the airspeed controlled past manual adjustment. I probably do not want the gas to be commanded in auto, other than emergency off.

The qualities of the forge atmosphere: Ribbon burner is on upper 1/3 of side wall. I would like to fashion a curved brick-piece along the opposing corner. I want many TE s to see how even the heat is and would think that simple manual adjustments to set point are all that you want. I can see some instances with tempering where a timer would be appropriate.
Long periods at prescribed temp would be the norm, right?

Have I understood correctly that a gas forge is faster and cheaper, on average, to operate?
 
Judcargile said:
Have I understood correctly that a gas forge is faster and cheaper, on average, to operate?
Click to expand...
Faster and cheaper than what? An electric oven? A coal forge?

For a PID controlled oven you might need two gas valves, one of high burn, other for low burn. I don't remember all the details. Here is a link to a 4 page thread on building what you're talking about. Lots of reading, and like most threads some stuff you won't be interested in. It is worth reading if you've not already read it.

PID Controlled Forge/Heat Treat oven plans & WIP

So after going through the stickys a couple weeks ago and finding all of the amazing plans for different PID controlled forges, tempering ovens, salt pot etc, I've switched gears fully to creating a really high-functioning PID controlled forge & heat treating oven. First off, thanks to other...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

This is another thread with forge info:

PID CONTROL FORGE ; Salt Pots; and more

Since this topic pops up about weekly, I thought I would make a permanent thread about it. I will sticky the thread. Post any comments or links you have to related threads and articles. I'll add any that will help to the list. BASIC INFO A PID is a control device that learns from its...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

You might consider building an electric heat treating oven. Several good threads on that.
 
Read the sticky on my PID controlled forge burner design. It will help you.
Here are some of the threads on it:

PID Controlled Forge/Heat Treat oven plans & WIP

Hey everyone, so here are some photos of what I have going right now with the PID controller hooked up to a venturi forge. I still haven't build the blown forge yet, BUT, the controller worked so, so well with the venturi forge that I at least wanted to share that too for those that are working...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

I need blown burner pro help please.

Ok, I have read and read, even some of Stacy's stuff on hypefree. I am building a blown/ribbon burner forge... I am fairly good with venturi setups, they are basically one barrel of a carburator... Blown is giving me fits. I am wanting PID control. I understand relays and solonoid valves and...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

Others and I found that making the air flow have two stages was not needed. Balance the forge atmosphere for the set point temperature. The change to slightly leaner when the PID is in the LOW stage will barely be noticeable.

Ribbon burners are great. There are several build threads you can find with the custom search engine.

Learn HT well. It is what makes a good looking shape into a good working knife.
Larrin's Book, Knife Engineering is the best book out for a knifemaker.

Electric HT ovens are slower to heat up, but are dead on in accuracy. A PID controlled forge will work better than just judging by eye, but won't come close to the HT accuracy of a kiln. Many steels can only be HTed in a HT oven/kiln.
 
I like and have the second drop coming in April on the Apollo forge by House Made.
Their grinder and attachments are good kit. My secind stock removal was right where I aimed this time.
I got a little confused facing it with the mill and now have no plunge lines: But, it looks good enough to not have any liniar angles. The Tru-Tilt table gives really good feedback and I found it as predictable as I had hoped.
I would like 6 or so T E voting to close the gas valve @ set point.
I would like one controller and T E sensors for the 2500F range and seperate hardware ranged for 500F; As resolution is appropriate with both processes being so far apart in temp.
How close have you seen a gas forge get?

When I get ovens on my mind, I use a bolt heater to get my case necks limber.
 
I have seen a well-designed gas forge with two-stage PID control get to within +/- 5°. +/- 10 degrees is probably more realistic for most forges. You have to let it fully soak the refractory and settle down as it tunes itself. This can take 30 to 45 minutes, so it is in the same time period of an electric kiln. If you make knives regularly you will eventually want or need a knifemaking oven/kiln. There are many brands to choose from.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I have seen a well-designed gas forge with two-stage PID control get to within +/- 5°. +/- 10 degrees is probably more realistic for most forges. You have to let it fully soak the refractory and settle down as it tunes itself. This can take 30 to 45 minutes, so it is in the same time period of an electric kiln. If you make knives regularly you will eventually want or need a knifemaking oven/kiln. There are many brands to choose from.
Click to expand...
you just talked me into an oven.
 
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