Pivot feel of 21 vs. Classic/regular

freq18hz

freq18hz

Joined
Mar 4, 2010
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Has anyone else noticed a feel difference when opening a 21 vs. the previous models? To me the classics/older style sebenzas seem to open with a lot more tension. They just feel buttery smooth too, whereas the 21 seemed to feel less solid. The friction felt on the pivot with the classics seems constant, all the way to open, whereas the 21 seems to slip/have less constant friction/feel.

Anyone know the reason for this? My dealer mentioned it could be due to the fact that Chris doesn't touch the knives as much these days? This sounds like possible hogwash to me, but fIgured it might be worth mentioning.

Anyone have any info?

-Freq
 
I think hogwash is a polite understatement. ;) I have at least one of each variety going back to about 15 years and when properly lubed and assembled there is no noticeable difference.
 
I felt no difference with my 21 or Regular models. I concur, "hogwash" is a polite understatement.
 
Oh, I meant hogwash on if Chris making the knives by hand has any effect or not.

There is differently a feel difference, on every classic/regular I've handled vs. the 21's. The older models feel much smoother upon opening.

-Freq
 
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freq18hz said:
Has anyone else noticed a feel difference when opening a 21 vs. the previous models? To me the classics/older style sebenzas seem to open with a lot more tension. They just feel buttery smooth too, whereas the 21 seemed to feel less solid. The friction felt on the pivot with the classics seems constant, all the way to open, whereas the 21 seems to slip/have less constant friction/feel.

Anyone know the reason for this? My dealer mentioned it could be due to the fact that Chris doesn't touch the knives as much these days? This sounds like possible hogwash to me, but fIgured it might be worth mentioning.

Anyone have any info?

-Freq
Click to expand...

could be the regulars and classics are older knives and are thus broken in more.

but the fact that Chris isn't touching the knives might have something to do it with. I know the Umnum proto (which was hand finished by Chris Reeve AFAIK was initially much smoother out of the box than the regular Umnum, but then once the production Umnum was broken in, it was smooth too (but still a bit different). I think after a certain amount of time for the knife to break in it won't make a difference either way.
 
The knives I'm talking about are all new. The classics/regulars that have the smaller thumb cut out all open with a lot of friction, very smoothly. The new 21's feel completely different. I've handled many small and large 21's, and they all feel completely different.


-Freq
 
freq18hz said:
The knives I'm talking about are all new. The classics/regulars that have the smaller thumb cut out all open with a lot of friction, very smoothly. The new 21's feel completely different. I've handled many small and large 21's, and they all feel completely different.


-Freq
Click to expand...

Can you describe the feel better?
 
I can try:

The regular/classics feel smooth, but with more friction. Basically, it requires more force to open them, but the friction felt from the pivot feels smooth and identical all the way until the knife is fully opened. The 21's I've handled feel more loose, and seem to kind of slip while opening. Basically with non 21's, if you apply constant pressure, the knife continues opening at the same rate, and with the same smoothness until it is fully open. The 21's if you apply constant pressure, as it opens the rate at which it opens/moves on the axis of the pivot changes...basically it feels like it slips here and there, it doesn't feel buttery smooth. It feels very different from the non-21's. I've tried several of each, all new, and I'm not the only person that noticed it.

I was hoping someone had an answer as to why, or perhaps it is by design? I would think it is less pleasing, but maybe it is so the knife can be opened faster since it has less tension/friction?


-Freq
 
freq18hz said:
Oh, I meant hogwash on if Chris making the knives by hand has any effect or not.

There is differently a feel difference, on every classic/regular I've handled vs. the 21's. The older models feel much smoother upon opening.

-Freq
Click to expand...

I don't see that here, even comparing the knives with the double-small washers vs. the knives with the small/large washers. YMMV.
 
freq18hz said:
I can try:

The regular/classics feel smooth, but with more friction. Basically, it requires more force to open them, but the friction felt from the pivot feels smooth and identical all the way until the knife is fully opened. The 21's I've handled feel more loose, and seem to kind of slip while opening. Basically with non 21's, if you apply constant pressure, the knife continues opening at the same rate, and with the same smoothness until it is fully open. The 21's if you apply constant pressure, as it opens the rate at which it opens/moves on the axis of the pivot changes...basically it feels like it slips here and there, it doesn't feel buttery smooth. It feels very different from the non-21's. I've tried several of each, all new, and I'm not the only person that noticed it.

I was hoping someone had an answer as to why, or perhaps it is by design? I would think it is less pleasing, but maybe it is so the knife can be opened faster since it has less tension/friction?


-Freq
Click to expand...

The only explanation I could offer was the change in washer diameter on one side - that could in theory account for a difference, though as mentioned above, I don't find that true with my Sebs.
 
My 21 with new washers has a slightly different feel. As if it were perfectly broken in out of the box, that's the best way I can describe it. I feel no slips in any of my 21s (one with new washers, two with solid washers) and they are as buttery as my classics and regulars. Handling new,different models in a store might create a perception of difference just because of non use. I bought a small classic, birthdate 2004, new from my knife store. It was still wrapped and taped in tissue, never been touched. It felt much tighter than my other sebenzas at first, but now after use and lube it's buttery, just like it's 8 brothers.
 
I have a small 21 and and a large classic, both well used and broken in. There is no difference that I can feel.

You guys must have very sensitive hands :D
 
Well I have a 21 right here. It feels just like every other one I've picked up, and it feels much less smooth than the older style sebenza's I have handled. For instance, it feels much less smooth when opening than my benchmade mini griptilian.


-Freq
 
freq18hz said:
Well I have a 21 right here. It feels just like every other one I've picked up, and it feels much less smooth than the older style sebenza's I have handled. For instance, it feels much less smooth when opening than my benchmade mini griptilian.


-Freq
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here. I was doing a test with my mini-grip as well and my large classic was much smoother, but my small 21 seemed to be sticky in the beginning and then get smoother as the pivot rotated if that makes sense. maybe it just needs more breaking in, but it could be a washer thing.
 
I'd have to agree with you there, I'm pretty new to CRK knives but the first two I got were small 21's and I was really not pleased with the action on either of them so I moved them along. I traded one for a large classic and the action is absolutely beautiful. It's smooth as butter. One of the 21's I had was quite excessive on the retention(very difficult to open) and then it wasn't even smooth all the way open, I honestly wasn't impressed with it's performance for the pricetag. I just got a small classic with micarta in today and I don't have a single complaint with it except that I would like it to be the large version! There is definitely a difference between classic and 21(classic being much much smoother more and "gratifying" to open) I've never used a regular so I can't contribute there...
Best,
Gabriel.
 
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My 21 has the same tension and buttery smooth action from start to finish. The 21s you handled probably weren't broken in like the older classic/regular models which have had years to be broken in. Also maybe the new perforated washers that the newer 21s come with are a factor. Maybe the holes in the washers make for a little less buttery smoothness in the action?
 
my old regular is way smoother than my insigno. and the insigno is pretty smooth.

i figured it was the perforated washers vs. the old solid washers.

but i really have no idea why.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
my old regular is way smoother than my insigno. and the insigno is pretty smooth.

i figured it was the perforated washers vs. the old solid washers.

but i really have no idea why.
Click to expand...

Same here, my reg is way smoother then my insingo but I think it's because of lock bar tension on the blade.
 
I don't own any older models, but I own 3 21's and can say that everytime I get a new one, it is not perceptively as smooth as its older brothers. Moreover, Sebenzas are sensitive to cleaning and lubing methods. I believe they are they only knife I own that are so dependant on the type of lube. On most of my other knives, it doesn't matter if I lube with high tech oils, lithium grease, or bacon grease. Also, the pocket clip can add extra tension to the lock, causing a different feel. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that each Sebenza is a fine tuned machine.
 
When I received my 2006 small Reg in 2009 it was tight as can be. Brand new out of the box. Been in storage that long. Lubed it and it was smooth. My Insigo now that it has broken in is smooth, but not as smooth as the old Reg because the blade has not been polished by the washers that much yet.

I have not found any difference in the action between any CRK when properly lubed. But if you really want to mess with your head take a seb with polished blade and feel how smooth that is compared to the normal stonewash blades! :eek:
 
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