Pivot systems for heavy edc use

N

nbf

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Sep 5, 2014
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I was thinking about the different pivot systems available, bearings, washers etc..... For EDC use lets say camping and the folding knife exposed to the elements, which pivot system would be best? I have knives with multiple systems and I'm concerned that a bearing system would be very hard to keep clean and could malfunction with so many movable parts as opposed to phosphor bronze washers or another type of washer system. Would appreciate your feedback and opinions. Thanks
Drew
 
In my opinion, the best pivot system for outdoor use in which the knife is exposed to various grit/grime/water/mud and so on is the one used by Emerson Knives. They use a material called Nylatron to make their washers. They are thick and self lubricating and will keep out a large amount of foreign materials from the pivot area. Also, the Nylatron can't and wont oxidize/corrode like other washers can, specifically phosphpor bronze washers. Emerson also packs the pivot area with copper impregnated grease to further prevent pivot corrosion and keep grit out.
 
Personally I like bronze washers, smooth, durable and unlikely to get too much crap in there, and easy to clean if it does. Bearings can be hit and miss, my Brous really doesn't like getting any dirt in there, even pocket lint needs to get cleaned out for smooth action. However there has never been any damage form the dirt that I've cleaned out. My crkt Foresight seems to be less susceptible to grit getting in the bearings, still smoothest after a good clean and re-grease.
 
nbf said:
I was thinking about the different pivot systems available, bearings, washers etc..... For EDC use lets say camping and the folding knife exposed to the elements, which pivot system would be best? I have knives with multiple systems and I'm concerned that a bearing system would be very hard to keep clean and could malfunction with so many movable parts as opposed to phosphor bronze washers or another type of washer system. Would appreciate your feedback and opinions. Thanks
Drew
Click to expand...

If camping or in woods I would have a fixed blade, even a little izula is better than anything but that's not your question. Minimal parts is the key, I live my manixs 2s but I hate taking them apart. Emersons are fool proof to disassemble and reassemble. Just keep a Philips screwdriver in your bag and a coin can do the pivot if you don't have a flathead. On most other pivots your going to need a torx driver , and you would of needed to break the loctite before you go in the field. My opinion if a knife can't handle a camping trip without cleaning during said trip , I wouldn't carry it, personally I have a ritual of breaking my knives down as needed , degrease, then apply break free CLP which isn't he best rust inhibitor I've ever used bar none. On a knife ur gonna use and get nasty simple is the key, ti framelocks , spyderco military , Emersons, Hinderers . The less parts a knife has the better.
 
First thing I thought when I saw the thread title was "nylatron" and I think Sylvanus said it perfectly.

Your question is pretty general but I think I see what you mean. For any knife dedicated to strictly "outdoor" I want something tough and over-built with an oversize or premium pivot. Two examples I use now are a HEST 2.0 and a Grayman Dua....the HEST being the one I grab for the worst stuff, because it has a few more 'tools' on it and it has Nylatron washers. I specifically did not buy the Mil-Spec HEST so I would have Nylatron washers.

I see a lot of posts around here by people who have to polish their PB washers. For the 'ol SHTF scenario it wouldn't bother me at all to be stuck with Nylatron. I agree with you that I wouldn't choose a bearing system for such a scenario--it's going to require maintenance.

There are two areas where I almost prefer Nylatron---tactical and outdoor. Mr. Emerson has written a couple of papers on Nylatron washers. So has another well-respected maker....Mr. Dozier maybe?....both are interesting reading for those wishing to pursue it.

Before the flames start, I'm a fan of P/B bushings. This is a very specific thing.
 
Everyone seems so concerned about bearings failing. Can someone share evidence of a little dirt causing catastrophic failure in a bearing pivot? I've personally never had problems with bearing knives while camping, but I also don't pack my knives into mud piles every day.
 
Its not catastrophic failure of the bearings. The design of a bearing pivot allows for more open space in the pivot area letting more debris in. You don't need to pack it in mud piles to see it. Drop one in beach sand or similar fine debris an the pivot will likely open very rough or not at all until its disassembled and cleaned.
 
I decided to test your theory. I'm not convinced that it would be an issue for any normal use. Sorry for the crappy video quality :o

[video=youtube;8DK7MPK4Qac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DK7MPK4Qac&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
Silvanus said:
Its not catastrophic failure of the bearings. The design of a bearing pivot allows for more open space in the pivot area letting more debris in. You don't need to pack it in mud piles to see it. Drop one in beach sand or similar fine debris an the pivot will likely open very rough or not at all until its disassembled and cleaned.
Click to expand...

It also has more space to allow debris to come out.

Blow it with compressed air and you are good to go.
 
[video=youtube;8ptNsbpBnig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ptNsbpBnig[/video]

[video=youtube;oDJn3ozeLLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDJn3ozeLLo[/video]
 
If you are that worried about a pivot I would highly suggest picking up Grant & Gavin Hawk's MUDD folder. The lock and pivot are sealed from any debris. ZT did a collab with them a few years back and came up with the ZT 0500 MUDD. I have both the ZT and a G&G Hawk prototype MUDD and they are outstanding along with the Hawk lock which is very robust and sturdy.
 
Some of the old Microtech Socoms had no bushings or bearings at all, just an aluminum frame on steel. I would probably take that, it's not the smoothest thing ever but it's two, three, or several less parts than bushings/bearings system and is much easier to both clean and reassemble.
 
Damn, that poor Fossil. :D

It seems like you don't have too much to worry about, OP. Lots of good advice here.
 
This is not true... have you personally had a knife with bearings not open because it fell on the beach? See the video above... you would be surprised at how resilient ball bearing systems actually are. ZT bearings are the only one I've used and never had the knife not open because of sand,mud,or anything else.
Silvanus said:
Its not catastrophic failure of the bearings. The design of a bearing pivot allows for more open space in the pivot area letting more debris in. You don't need to pack it in mud piles to see it. Drop one in beach sand or similar fine debris an the pivot will likely open very rough or not at all until its disassembled and cleaned.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you all for your posts. Very informative. What is great about bladeforums? .....the members.
Drew
 
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