I have a good 8" plain edge knife, and a wsk. I'd like to get a smaller knife. I'm taking a survival course and we make fire boards, arrows etc... I was cutting fire boards with my plain edge and it took about 3 minutes to make the notch. Out of curiosity I got out an old buck lite folder witha 1/2 serrated blade, and cut a notch in about 30 seconds. Why do most survival guys dislike serrated edges. Why do most military survival knives have partially serrated blades? I'm thinking about a short nighthawk. Thanks, vcb
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Plain vs. Serrated Blade
- Thread starter VCB
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Yep. What he said.
Welcome VCB !!
Good question.
I think serrations have their place, although I prefer a plain blade myself. It is possible that a serrated blade could 'out-cut' a plain blade doing the same job in some circumstances.
If my life depended on having to cut a lot of rope in a hurry, then maybe I'd pick a sharp serrated blade. But, for me, I'd much rather have a plain blade for general work. It is what I grew up with, it is better for whittling and fine carving... and chopping, it is easier to sharpen.... and it just seems to be the 'proper' edge for a knife.
I guess each user has to decide what best suits them. Perhaps you could buy/borrow one of each and try doing a number of tasks (including sharpening) and see what suits you.
best wishes...... Coote.
Good question.
I think serrations have their place, although I prefer a plain blade myself. It is possible that a serrated blade could 'out-cut' a plain blade doing the same job in some circumstances.
If my life depended on having to cut a lot of rope in a hurry, then maybe I'd pick a sharp serrated blade. But, for me, I'd much rather have a plain blade for general work. It is what I grew up with, it is better for whittling and fine carving... and chopping, it is easier to sharpen.... and it just seems to be the 'proper' edge for a knife.
I guess each user has to decide what best suits them. Perhaps you could buy/borrow one of each and try doing a number of tasks (including sharpening) and see what suits you.
best wishes...... Coote.
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IMO serrations are simply meant to be a way to extend the cutting ability of a knife without sharpening it, that's really all there is to it. So, take two identical knives in a low grade soft steel, one serrated, on plain edge, start with two sharp knives and start cutting cardboard. You will still be able to "saw" through the cardboard with the serrated blade long after the plain edge is useless, so for the majority of casual users, serrations will allow their knife to remain useful for longer, while also being able to be made with a lower end steel that allows the price point to be more attractive to that same casual user. This also explains why serrations are so unpopular with the hardcore knife crowd, we keep our knives sharp and will pay for the premium steels that allow them to stay sharp even through extended use.
EDIT: I do have to agree with kage, first responders dealing with seat belts are an exception. They need to quickly cut a strong synthetic material with possibly very little leverage and a bad angle and it needs to cut quickly and reliably, so a full serrated sheepsfoot is the way to go.
EDIT: I do have to agree with kage, first responders dealing with seat belts are an exception. They need to quickly cut a strong synthetic material with possibly very little leverage and a bad angle and it needs to cut quickly and reliably, so a full serrated sheepsfoot is the way to go.
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Mistwalker
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Not everyone here hates serrations, I know I don't. I like serrations, especially the serrations on my RC-4 just because it helps make those notches faster...though I do sometimes find serrations near the handle a pain it's a trade off for me because I do like what they can do when I need them.
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IMO serrations are simply meant to be a way to extend the cutting ability of a knife without sharpening it, that's really all there is to it. So, take two identical knives in a low grade soft steel, one serrated, on plain edge, start with two sharp knives and start cutting cardboard. You will still be able to "saw" through the cardboard with the serrated blade long after the plain edge is useless, so for the majority of casual users, serrations will allow their knife to remain useful for longer, while also being able to be made with a lower end steel that allows the price point to be more attractive to that same casual user. This also explains why serrations are so unpopular with the hardcore knife crowd, we keep our knives sharp and will pay for the premium steels that allow them to stay sharp even through extended use.
EDIT: I do have to agree with kage, first responders dealing with seat belts are an exception. They need to quickly cut a strong synthetic material with possibly very little leverage and a bad angle and it needs to cut quickly and reliably, so a full serrated sheepsfoot is the way to go.
Well said buddy, that's the main advantage I see as well. A plain edge will totally seize to cut when dull but a dulled serrated blade will still tear through most materials.If you were going to be in the field for a prolonged period and didn't have means to sharpen your blade then a serrated blade would be a good pick !
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Different tools for different jobs. The umbrella of the survival thing is broad and encompasses a bunch of different techniques. Some angles such as classic Bushcraft tend to favor plain utility patterns for the broad range of excellence. Neo-Bushcraft is largely twig carving so fine zero Scandis are often preferred. Paleo/ primitive/reenactment folk often want plain edges for other reasons. All this stuff and more usually gets lumped under the rubric of survival. Whether it be for professional reasons or as a hobbyist it is a fair assumption that practitioners at least have some passing interest in how to maintain their tools, and some even relish the opportunity to sharpen their stuff. These people usually have time and resources on their side.
In comparison military stuff doesn't need to appeal to any hobbyist leanings or urges to go sharpen or anything like that. Often the knife will belong to a relatively disinterested party. All that party needs to know is that knife will cut stuff. No delight in kiddy games of whittling bits of hairs, or who can get the sharpest, or what is optimal... just will it cut. More specifically, will it keep cutting in the hands of someone without the inclination, the sense, or the dictates of circumstances to protect the knife from stuff that is very hostile to nicely sharpened edges. For this purpose serrations are great. Take a look at the link below. That knife retains cutting power after treatment that wouldn't do a plain edge a great deal of good at all. The only thing that matters is that it can keep cutting, not how sharp it is or the geometry. A serrated blade has portions that protect other portions from becoming damaged. In sum, it is an ugly route but its hard to ignore that is a graceful degradation of cutting power compared to a plain edge. When you look at the kinds of things a military knife might routinely get used for compared to what say Mears uses his for on one of his TV shows there's a great deal of difference.
Video
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In comparison military stuff doesn't need to appeal to any hobbyist leanings or urges to go sharpen or anything like that. Often the knife will belong to a relatively disinterested party. All that party needs to know is that knife will cut stuff. No delight in kiddy games of whittling bits of hairs, or who can get the sharpest, or what is optimal... just will it cut. More specifically, will it keep cutting in the hands of someone without the inclination, the sense, or the dictates of circumstances to protect the knife from stuff that is very hostile to nicely sharpened edges. For this purpose serrations are great. Take a look at the link below. That knife retains cutting power after treatment that wouldn't do a plain edge a great deal of good at all. The only thing that matters is that it can keep cutting, not how sharp it is or the geometry. A serrated blade has portions that protect other portions from becoming damaged. In sum, it is an ugly route but its hard to ignore that is a graceful degradation of cutting power compared to a plain edge. When you look at the kinds of things a military knife might routinely get used for compared to what say Mears uses his for on one of his TV shows there's a great deal of difference.
Video
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Afterthought: Blades that may appear to be a plain blade at first glance can actually be serrated. For instance, if you sharpen your knife with a whetstone, then the edge is likely to have small serrations that correspond with the size of the grit in the stone. I know that you are most likely talking about big factory-made serrations compared to a blade that has no serrations to the naked eye.
I believe that the small serrations created by a file, a coarse sharpening steel, or by abrasive grit can really improve cutting performance for some jobs.
So serrations can certainly be an advantage. The question is how big do you want your serrations?. I'm a 'micro-serration' fan.
I believe that the small serrations created by a file, a coarse sharpening steel, or by abrasive grit can really improve cutting performance for some jobs.
So serrations can certainly be an advantage. The question is how big do you want your serrations?. I'm a 'micro-serration' fan.
One reason I think a lot of people are turned off to serrated blades is that they haven't seen the good side of serrations. Until I got a couple of high quality Spyderco folders fully serrated I didn't really have much desire to use them either. But back in 1995 I got my first Spyderco folder which was a GIN-1 Mariner model fully serrated. Let me tell you that it truly changed my overall outlook on serrated blades. And once you've used the really good serration patterns you won't look back.
Spyderco's serrations without any doubt truly have the best serration patterns on the market IMHO. I currently have a pair of Spyderco fixed blades that I take on all of my outdoor adventures. I have two Temperance 1, FB-05 models in both edge variants. I remember back about 3 years ago a friend of mine shot a huge snapping turtle and I had the formiddible task of field dressing that rascal. I'm here to tell you that if I didn't have that fixed blade serrated edge blade it would have truly been a nightmarish job. But that serrated blade made child's play out of finishing up that snapping turtle.
I also love my fully SE fixed blade for sawing through deer rib cages and other tough animal skinning chores. I beseech all of you to at least try a high quality serrated blade before you completely cast them aside.
Also if you guys/gals want a nice tutorial on skinning a snapping turtle you can go to www.corditecountry.com The lady who runs that website has a very nice information section which covers field dressing snapping turtles. And they make some of the best soup you've ever tasted.
Spyderco's serrations without any doubt truly have the best serration patterns on the market IMHO. I currently have a pair of Spyderco fixed blades that I take on all of my outdoor adventures. I have two Temperance 1, FB-05 models in both edge variants. I remember back about 3 years ago a friend of mine shot a huge snapping turtle and I had the formiddible task of field dressing that rascal. I'm here to tell you that if I didn't have that fixed blade serrated edge blade it would have truly been a nightmarish job. But that serrated blade made child's play out of finishing up that snapping turtle.
I also love my fully SE fixed blade for sawing through deer rib cages and other tough animal skinning chores. I beseech all of you to at least try a high quality serrated blade before you completely cast them aside.
Also if you guys/gals want a nice tutorial on skinning a snapping turtle you can go to www.corditecountry.com The lady who runs that website has a very nice information section which covers field dressing snapping turtles. And they make some of the best soup you've ever tasted.
i like my combo blades...for most of my utility cutting chores, i want to cut fast without any regard to niceties; i just want it cut; serrations do it ugly but quick...sharpening them is not an issue; i take the time to do it.
of course you can't whittle with a serrated blade; why would i use one for that?
of course you can't whittle with a serrated blade; why would i use one for that?
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The reason most military survival knives have serrations is that a person in the military who is in a SERE situation will often, if not usually, require cutting themselves out of webbing -- quickly.
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i personally dont love serrations if i was a first responder or worked on a fishing vessel im sure i would feel differently but i always have my knives sharp and a sharp pe knife will cut fabric as fast as a se knife
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My standard reply to this question is:"Serrations are what guys with poor sharpening skills use" 
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Calebklyne, hola
I'm inclined to agree. I have a fully serrated Spyderco Police and in the right situation it cuts very aggressively, but it cuts no better than plain blades I have. I'm a little mystified as to why webbing would be considered especially resistant too. I've got a kitchen knife in front of me that'll go clean through any harness / seat belt / bit of CEFO I've seen in one slice. I've obliterated the serrations on several knives because of this from the SEKI SOG NW Ranger to the old Spyderco I put up in mah last batch of pics in the pics thread. The serrations were not adding anything useful to the way it cut and more often than not were an obstacle. That said, whilst they add nothing I prize in terms of cutting I think they're great in defense. By that I mean that Spyderco Police will resist becoming useless long after many a plain edge has gone the way of the butter knife. For me it isn't so much about what the serrations add 'cos that is little, it's about how they resist having properties taken away.
I'm inclined to agree. I have a fully serrated Spyderco Police and in the right situation it cuts very aggressively, but it cuts no better than plain blades I have. I'm a little mystified as to why webbing would be considered especially resistant too. I've got a kitchen knife in front of me that'll go clean through any harness / seat belt / bit of CEFO I've seen in one slice. I've obliterated the serrations on several knives because of this from the SEKI SOG NW Ranger to the old Spyderco I put up in mah last batch of pics in the pics thread. The serrations were not adding anything useful to the way it cut and more often than not were an obstacle. That said, whilst they add nothing I prize in terms of cutting I think they're great in defense. By that I mean that Spyderco Police will resist becoming useless long after many a plain edge has gone the way of the butter knife. For me it isn't so much about what the serrations add 'cos that is little, it's about how they resist having properties taken away.
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I like to have the right tool for the job - so I would definitely EDC a serrated knife if it did a job better that I needed it to do. In fact I do EDC a serrated blade - my Leatherman Wave has a serrated blade and it is wickedly sharp! The reason it is so sharp is because I never use it. The reason I never use it is because I never find myself needing to use it. For cutting a notch in a fireboard I would think that the saw blade on the same LM wave would be quicker & easier.
Of course other people have different needs because they perform different tasks. Also there are people that don't keep their PE blades 'shaving sharp' so they may find their PE blades not so capable for some tasks.
Some people say that a serrated blade is better for cutting tomatoes - I say that my VERY sharp PE knives are better than any serrated blade I have ever tried, especially my Opinel knives. I have also found that a VERY sharp knife can easily cut nylon cordage.
Even when I go into the bush I always take sharpening equipment - so my knives are always kept sharp - that certainly makes a big difference in the PE vs SE comparison.
Of course other people have different needs because they perform different tasks. Also there are people that don't keep their PE blades 'shaving sharp' so they may find their PE blades not so capable for some tasks.
Some people say that a serrated blade is better for cutting tomatoes - I say that my VERY sharp PE knives are better than any serrated blade I have ever tried, especially my Opinel knives. I have also found that a VERY sharp knife can easily cut nylon cordage.
Even when I go into the bush I always take sharpening equipment - so my knives are always kept sharp - that certainly makes a big difference in the PE vs SE comparison.