Plane blades

T

TomW

Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
1,128
Something kind of magical happened. After buying an old forge and hitting the flea markets for the hammers and tools I needed I kind of became addicted to the use of hand tools.
I extended it a lot farther and began to buy old planes and rasps and now rarely use my router.
Be it hammering a piece of steel or making shavings fly nothing relaxes me more.
I can change my mood better than any drug could do it.
And time just doesn't seem to exist once I get going.
To get to the point of this post. I'd like to start making blades for some of my planes and also make some wooden planes.
In the woodworking circle now A2 is the most popular plane blade steel.
I'd appreciate any sugestions, alternatives, tips etc.
I also want to make a set of custom chisels. Rather than the usual Rc 58-62
I'd like something a bit softer that wouldn't hold as long but be quicker to hone up.
Forged or ground doesn't matter. I'm open to anything.
If you've done any of this or can give me suggestions
I thank you
 
Hi Tom, good to see you back.
A2 is a good choice. I've made some planer blades from it with good results and the sizes it comes in are unlimited.
For chisels I've had good luck with S7. I made my brother a set of wood turning tools with it a decade ago and he is still using them.
 
"The Complete Blacksmith" by Alexander G. Weygers tells how to make chisels and gouges and other woodworking tools. It's a great source for non-knife smithing info.
 
I've been making and using planes for 25 years. The best western type planes I have used have had O1 tool steel in them (when one could tell at all). I have tried a bunch of the A2 blades, and don't see any improvement, either in terms of the sharpening and planing cycle, or purely in terms of planing. I have some old "cast" steel tools that are very good, better than any of the new western tools. I have a 10 dollar Japanese plane blade from about 1980, that wasn't hand made, and is better than any western blade period. I have art level Japanese tools and they are better still, but not by much. One of my better sets of Japanese chisels is made of HSS, and it's wonderful, far better than any A2 blade. The best router bit I ever got was a Hitachi that came with my TR12, the only bit i ever used that was shaving sharp, which some westerm makers say is impossible with carbide particle size.

What I take from all of this is that the best tools are made by those with A) the highest standards. Japanese tools are made for professionals, not merely in the sense of people who get a check... Some people mythologize the Japanese carpenter like they never use power tools. Not true. They are very skilled folks, with a lot of tools, both hand and power, that we can only dream of.

And,

B) the steel type is less important than what is done with it.

And I suppose one has to add the tools shape/form is important too.

I have several versions of basicaly every tool you can buy. I will buy tools just to see if the hype is true, though my core tools are pretty steady. I got into forging for the same reason you describe, and to make tools I just can't find or even that don't exist. I use O1, and am trying to learn to work it as well as I can. But I will use files and other stuff in certain cases. I can be a sharpening purist, but when the overnight water freeezes in my shop, I sharpen by hand with sandpaper. Scarry Sharp as they say. Sandpaper will eat tools pretty quickly, so I am happy to persue edge holding, I know it won't be that tough to sharpen.

There is a hardness change afoot, or maybe it's misrepresentation, though I doubt it for now. Recent test in Fine Woodworking have shown that many tools that come from lineups that probably would have rated in the 50s on the C scale, are now in the 60s, yet they still hold an edge like a wax casting. Weird. The Rockwell does not seem to be the main issue even with similar steels. Beware of ratings articles, however, I have seen methodologies in FW that missed the figures by orders of magnitude. It's a lot easier to figure out what you like than how to rate stuff for everyone. Tests, for instance, that use the same sharpening methodologies for every tool miss the point that some tools thrive on nitrous not unleaded.
 
Thanks for the great reply.
Maybe you can help me a bit more.
Making shavings instead if sawdust has made the shop a much nicer place work. As I'm sure you'd expect the first plane I made was a rabbet plane because they're the easiest. I bought a couple of molding planes at a flea market and knocked out a couple picture frames and got quickly hooked.
My current project is to be more molding planes.
I could sure use some tips on grinding the contours.
I'd like to set up a grinder with a fine narrow pointed wheel like the grinders they use to grind the blades for the high end molding planers. (need a source for wheels I'll make the rest)
I could also use a source for some Lignum Vitae slabs for sole material.
What do you think of the high priced Nikishi twisted neck chisels?
I'll stop hear since I can think of a thousand more questions.
Thanks
PS
this is definately a knife related post. It all cuts.
 
Protactical said:
The best router bit I ever got was a Hitachi that came with my TR12, the only bit i ever used that was shaving sharp, which some western makers say is impossible with carbide particle size.
Click to expand...
I would like to know more about this carbide bit.

Was it standard carbide?

Was it a cermet (ceramic metal composite)?

Were you able to resharpen it to shaving sharp?

What degree angle was it sharpen at?

I find this very interesting.
 
The people I've corresponded with on planer blades, those who were directly or indirectly involved with the link that Chuck posted, have worked pretty hard to evaluate steels independent of other influences. That was the reason for developing a standard sharpening method that took all the blades to the same finish. One of the problems in all these tests, knives or planer blades is determine what you're actually seeing. One holds an edge better than another; is that because it's better or because it was sharpened better in the first place because it's simply easier to sharpen? What they were specifically trying to determine, besides steel performance, was what was in fact the reason why planer blades went dull. From the pics it's easy to see that the edges didn't just wear away; they broke, chipped, crumbled. They pretty much concluded that toughness was a major issue with these blades, and that may well be why many people have used A2 for such blades; it's pretty tough steel. 3V is several times tougher and the results show that. They've also made chisels in 3V with excellent results.


Steel is important, but it's certainly not everything that's important.
 
Tom, i can't give any useful pointers on plane blade material choice because i know just about nothing about steels but i know exactly how you feel hooked up on tools that require manual dexterity and time (and passion !) put into something you're working on. I "inherited" a shop-full of carpentry tools to use as i please from my late grandfather and i haven't really paid any attention to them in well over a decade since he passed away. Only recently have i gotten the "urge" back, the feeling i had when i was a young kid, coming to grandpa for a visit and we went working on something (any idea i came up with just to lear how to use the tools) in his shop ... and to get away from women (mom/granma) :D Man ... i so recommend the feeling - i got semi-spoiled with electric tools at the places i worked at so far but the feeling of satisfaction you have once you finish something using your hands only, the blisters, the cuts, the sweat, the time, the broken bones (long story involving an anvil :rolleyes: ) it's irrelevant. Do try it out guys if you're spoiled by power tools too :) Nothing more stress-relieving than seeing omething made just with the pwoer of your hands.
 
Here are two links you might find interesting on plane making Tod Herrli is a master planemaker.

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2nwp6/planes/hollow.html

http://ww1.comteck.com/~therrli/

and here's another link on making floats although you will need them for molding planes, new plane makers simply grind a chisel square, harden and put a burr on one edge, these are used for making bench planes.
http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/img/float/Floats5.htm

The forum here is very good, no slammers and knowledgeable guys:
www.woodnet.net
Good Luck

Mike
 
Thanks for the info on the steels in plane blades. I've got a few old and new I've tweaked and sharpened. Sandpaper isn't always your friend when trying to finish wood. Planes and scrapers are.
I looked at the rest of the Norse Woodsmith site. Some interesting tutorials there.

Howie
 
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